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Author Topic: Need ID on longrifle: Tryon Philad  (Read 14213 times)

Offline Salkehatchie

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Need ID on longrifle: Tryon Philad
« on: August 04, 2015, 10:50:37 PM »
I am going to attempt to post pictures.  Just took a bunch with my smart phone and may have to wait till the college kid gets home from work!   ::)

This is a 44" barrel gun, restored.  Original flint, converted to percussion.  Double set triggers. Furniture appears to be brass.  The styling on the patch box sure looks like SW VA.  Buckhorn rear sight.  Some odd carving on the check piece.  

However on the barrel flat is stamped:  Tyron Philad.

Who or what and when does this indicate guys?

 ???
« Last Edit: August 05, 2015, 06:24:55 PM by Salkehatchie »
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Offline Karl Kunkel

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Re: Need ID on longrifle: Tyron Philad
« Reply #1 on: August 05, 2015, 05:00:13 AM »
Tyron was a family of gunmakers from Philadelphia.  According to Whisker in Arms Makers of PA:

George W. Tyron & Co (1830-1837)

Edward K. Tyron (1837-57)

Edward K. Tyron & Co (1857-64)

Tyron Brothers (1866-68)

Edward K Tyron Jr & Co (1868-1905)

Edward K Tyron Co (after 1905)

George Tyron & Son (1841)



« Last Edit: August 05, 2015, 05:02:15 AM by Karl Kunkel »
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Offline Salkehatchie

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Re: Need ID on longrifle: Tyron Philad
« Reply #2 on: August 05, 2015, 04:26:24 PM »
Karl:

This gun is much before that time frame.  It sure looks like an 1820 SW VA gun with a Lauck [ sp ? ]  patchbox!

I just need to figure out how to post these pictures - that should help.

Thank you
« Last Edit: August 05, 2015, 04:26:49 PM by Salkehatchie »
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Offline bones92

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Re: Need ID on longrifle: Tyron Philad
« Reply #3 on: August 05, 2015, 05:01:12 PM »
Do you mean Tryon?

I have a percussion rifle with Tryon brass work and a barrel marked PHILADA on top, and READING PA underneath the barrel.

I am going to post on it soon.
« Last Edit: August 05, 2015, 05:55:42 PM by bones92 »
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Offline Salkehatchie

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Re: Need ID on longrifle: Tryon Philad
« Reply #4 on: August 05, 2015, 06:26:40 PM »
Bones:

Yeah, I got ahold of the picture and it is Tryon.  Going from "memory" has its issues!  :(

The museum folks have not had the courage to knock the pins lose and see what is under the barrel.  Although that has been discussed.  I need to figure out how to post the pictures!
« Last Edit: August 05, 2015, 06:28:57 PM by Salkehatchie »
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Offline bones92

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Re: Need ID on longrifle: Tryon Philad
« Reply #5 on: August 05, 2015, 09:28:38 PM »
Take a look at the photos I posted in a separate thread.   Just curious if it's similar to this one.
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Offline Salkehatchie

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Re: Need ID on longrifle: Tryon Philad
« Reply #6 on: August 05, 2015, 10:23:15 PM »
Bones:

I sure wish I could post some pictures of this baby!  This gun appears much older than your percussion.  Total styling is different.  I am not sure if there is a subscript "A" on the RHS of the Philad on this gun.  Barrel has a lot of rust on her.
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Offline gibster

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Re: Need ID on longrifle: Tryon Philad
« Reply #7 on: August 06, 2015, 01:02:16 AM »
Salkehatchie - Here is a link with instructions to post pictures.
http://americanlongrifles.org/forum/index.php?topic=10.0
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Offline Salkehatchie

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Re: Need ID on longrifle: Tryon Philad
« Reply #8 on: August 06, 2015, 02:01:43 AM »
Gibster:

Thank you.  Might take me a bit, but will give it a try.

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Offline davebozell

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Re: Need ID on longrifle: Tryon Philad
« Reply #9 on: August 06, 2015, 03:18:37 AM »
If that doesn't work, send them to me and I'll post them for you. 
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Offline davebozell

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Re: Need ID on longrifle: Tryon Philad
« Reply #10 on: August 07, 2015, 03:23:25 AM »
Here are most of the pictures that Perry wanted to post:

















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Offline bones92

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Re: Need ID on longrifle: Tryon Philad
« Reply #11 on: August 07, 2015, 05:25:50 PM »
I'll bet it was a nice looking rifle in its day.
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Offline Shreckmeister

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Re: Need ID on longrifle: Tryon Philad
« Reply #12 on: August 07, 2015, 06:02:06 PM »
I wonder what removing the dirt and a simple coat of wax would look like?
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Offline Buck

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Re: Need ID on longrifle: Tryon Philad
« Reply #13 on: August 07, 2015, 06:22:05 PM »
Doesn't look like a Philly Gun. Kind of looks West VA (carving) just a guess from the pictures.
Buck
« Last Edit: August 07, 2015, 06:27:59 PM by Buck »
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Offline Salkehatchie

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Re: Need ID on longrifle: Tryon Philad
« Reply #14 on: August 07, 2015, 07:12:53 PM »
Dave:

Many thanks!  Now we have her documented.

Shreckmeister & Bones: The college is serious about getting her cleaned up and restored to original condition. 

I wonder, if there is anyway to really tell...if the gun was originally flint or percussion?

Buck: that sure seems to be the consensus of all who see the gun.  SoVA.

Now that trigger guard is not original though!  So that might flavor the analysis.  When we got her off of her perch and really looked it over you can see the pin holes for the "original" triggerguard.  The screws for the trigger guard and barrel are obviously machine made.  The original trigger guard pins and key slots are still there.

Thank you guys!
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Offline Shreckmeister

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Re: Need ID on longrifle: Tryon Philad
« Reply #15 on: August 07, 2015, 09:38:01 PM »
Looks like the lock mortise was cut away to clear for a flinter.  Let's see the counterplate.
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Online Dennis Glazener

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Re: Need ID on longrifle: Tryon Philad
« Reply #16 on: August 07, 2015, 11:51:47 PM »
Quote
Buck: that sure seems to be the consensus of all who see the gun.  SoVA.

I would not argue the VA/WVA origin but why Southern VA? I would place it in the Winchester area which is more northern VA. Not sure I have seen that type of carving in southern VA. Just curious :)
Dennis
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Offline Salkehatchie

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Re: Need ID on longrifle: Tryon Philad
« Reply #17 on: August 09, 2015, 03:26:30 PM »
Quote from: Dennis Glazener on August 07, 2015, 11:51:47 PM
Quote
Buck: that sure seems to be the consensus of all who see the gun.  SoVA.

I would not argue the VA/WVA origin but why Southern VA? I would place it in the Winchester area which is more northern VA. Not sure I have seen that type of carving in southern VA. Just curious :)
Dennis

Dennis:

I think, it is that trigger guard that makes most believe it is Southern VA.  Winchester eh? I am no expert for sure so any info is appreciated!  You mention the carving - again no expert but that carving is unusual.  Is the carving particular to the Winchester area? 
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Offline Buck

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Re: Need ID on longrifle: Tryon Philad
« Reply #18 on: August 09, 2015, 06:24:33 PM »
The carving looks like Virginia, a better picture of the carving would help. The trigger guard (my 1st thought) isn't indigenous to the rifle at all. It would help to have the rifle win hand, all of this is pure speculation. If your within a reasonable distance from somebody, take a ride and have somebody look it over, or if your close to CLA territory a lot of the guys will be there next weekend. Dennis and Tim Hodges will be there one of these 2 can help you.
Buck
« Last Edit: August 09, 2015, 06:27:05 PM by Buck »
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Offline Buck

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Re: Need ID on longrifle: Tryon Philad
« Reply #19 on: August 09, 2015, 06:25:57 PM »
One other quick note regarding the trigger guard, look at your last picture in the chain and note the pin hole that used to hold the original trigger guard in place.
Buck
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Offline Salkehatchie

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Re: Need ID on longrifle: Tryon Philad
« Reply #20 on: August 09, 2015, 06:44:14 PM »
Quote from: Buck on August 09, 2015, 06:24:33 PM
The carving looks like Virginia, a better picture of the carving would help. The trigger guard (my 1st thought) isn't indigenous to the rifle at all. It would help to have the rifle win hand, all of this is pure speculation. If your within a reasonable distance from somebody, take a ride and have somebody look it over, or if your close to CLA territory a lot of the guys will be there next weekend. Dennis and Tim Hodges will be there one of these 2 can help you.
Buck

Buck:.

Correct!  The trigger guard is not original.  Plus the barrel was pinned...later.  Originally it had keys. 

Pictures...another trip there.  They have limited hours and I am going to be real busy for several weeks with school starting up next week.

Will have to see about taking it somewhere, maybe.  Depends on whether or not the college museum folks would give the OK for that.  Probably, but I am not going anywhere for several weeks.  Mid MO is my location, so...Ft. Chartres area is probably my best bet.
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Offline Salkehatchie

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Re: Need ID on longrifle: Tryon Philad
« Reply #21 on: August 09, 2015, 06:45:57 PM »
Quote from: Buck on August 09, 2015, 06:25:57 PM
One other quick note regarding the trigger guard, look at your last picture in the chain and note the pin hole that used to hold the original trigger guard in place.
Buck

Buck:

Exactly!  And there are other clues there that indicate this baby saw some rough and heavy usage along the way.  Also the barrel did come off.  Not much holding it on anyway, and no other markings on there that could be readily discerned.

Thank you!
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Online Dennis Glazener

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Re: Need ID on longrifle: Tryon Philad
« Reply #22 on: August 09, 2015, 10:10:01 PM »
Quote
Dennis:

I think, it is that trigger guard that makes most believe it is Southern VA.  Winchester eh? I am no expert for sure so any info is appreciated!  You mention the carving - again no expert but that carving is unusual.  Is the carving particular to the Winchester area? 
I think the carving layout looks a lot like the way Lauck (Winchester) laid out his carving kind in a parallel manner. Take a look at these links to see what I mean.

http://americanlongrifles.org/forum/index.php?topic=30720.0

http://americanlongrifles.org/forum/index.php?topic=3203.0

http://www.flintriflesmith.com/Antiques/fsheetz_gb.htm

http://www.aspenshadeltd.com/inventory_lauck.html

http://americanlongrifles.org/forum/index.php?topic=30808.0

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Offline Buck

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Re: Need ID on longrifle: Tryon Philad
« Reply #23 on: August 10, 2015, 12:03:18 AM »
Dennis,
I would agree on the carving, the "Sea Shell" effect that follows the outer edge of the C Scroll speaks Virginia. Certainly not an expert opinion but just some observations, we don't see many Virginia rifles around my neck of the woods.
Buck
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