Author Topic: G.Beuttenmüller Chicago Illinois (Read 11968 times)

Klaus · « **on:** August 31, 2015, 03:50:16 PM »

Dear Gent`s,

a friend of mine has an original Rifle from G.Beuttenmüller in mint condition.
i will post here some pics and beeing courious if you can tell if there some info exist about this Riflesmith , Number of Production e.g.
The Caliber is .401 and due to the fact that this Rifle is very good he has shoot it but with bad results because there was no info wich kind of Bullet, Load etc are needed for this Rifle.
may you can help out with some info also

Klaus

Note: Pictures restored by moderator.

Bob Roller · « **Reply #1 on:** August 31, 2015, 08:28:56 PM »

The muzzle is recessed for a circular parch probably precut. Has anyone tried to find out if it is a slow twist rifling,fast twist,gain twist or what? Was this maker known for making guns for round ball or long bullets?

Bob Roller

Bob Roller · « **Reply #2 on:** August 31, 2015, 08:34:50 PM »

There are two George Beutenmueller rifles in Hamilton and Rowe's book on The American Schuetzen Rifle..

Bob Roller

.38 Large · « **Reply #3 on:** August 31, 2015, 11:19:35 PM »

Almost certainly a picket bullet gun. Curt J. featured rifles by this maker in his Schuetzen article in Muzzleblasts. I'm sure he will chime in with the details as this rifle looks familiar with the ornate trigger guard.

realtorone · « **Reply #4 on:** September 01, 2015, 02:38:59 AM »

what a beauty.

Ky-Flinter · « **Reply #5 on:** September 01, 2015, 09:42:26 PM »

Hi Klaus,

Welcome to ALR and thank you for sharing what is apparently a very nice rifle.

Unfortunately, the picture links you added are no longer functioning. After you posted your photo links here, did you delete your photos from Photobucket or move them into a different folder or Album? That will break the links and cause the pictures to disappear from ALR and Photobucket replaces them with a picture of a cat. Ugh!

-Ron

Klaus · « **Reply #6 on:** September 03, 2015, 02:35:26 PM »

sorry for eliminating the Pictures before
here again some pics but i am very sorry for the doubles but i try to avoide this for more than 6 turns without success

Klaus

Bob Roller · « **Reply #7 on:** September 03, 2015, 03:03:05 PM »

Klaus,
The Beuttenmueller rifle shown here is a bit different from the two shown in Hamilton&Rowe's book.
They have simpler trigger guards and have the "English"styled locks. These are fine guns even if the trigger guard looks like an hallucination.

Bob Roller

Klaus · « **Reply #8 on:** September 03, 2015, 04:09:22 PM »

Morning Bob, so far i was informed these kind of trigger guard called " Faulenzer " in german language when i translate it there a lot of words in english possibile, maybe it was a sluggard or a loafer.
by the way it has got a very fine needletrigger and should be a pleasure to shoot.. so far we find out what are the right load and bullet / Patch Ball combination.....

Klaus

T*O*F · « **Reply #9 on:** September 03, 2015, 04:29:54 PM »

Quote

The Caliber is .401 and due to the fact that this Rifle is very good he has shoot it but with bad results because there was no info wich kind of Bullet, Load etc are needed for this Rifle.
may you can help out with some info also

My schuetzen has a bore of .378, but it has a false muzzle. The patch is placed in the false muzzle and the bullet into the starter. They are swaged into the bore together. My rifle has a twist of 1 in 32 and a ballistician suggested to me that it should take a bullet that is no longer than .78 inches.

I have shot it with a patched, round ball and it is accurate to 100 yards.

Ky-Flinter · « **Reply #10 on:** September 03, 2015, 04:56:52 PM »

Quote from: Klaus on September 03, 2015, 02:35:26 PM

sorry for eliminating the Pictures before
here again some pics but i am very sorry for the doubles but i try to avoide this for more than 6 turns without success

Klaus,

Thank you for taking the time to add your pictures back to this topic. It is a wonderful gun! I removed the double pictures and also added the new pictures back into the original post.

Thanks again for showing us your friend's rifle. Good luck on finding the load that she likes. It should be fun.

-Ron

Bob Roller · « **Reply #11 on:** September 03, 2015, 05:06:14 PM »

Quote from: Klaus on September 03, 2015, 04:09:22 PM

Morning Bob, so far i was informed these kind of trigger guard called " Faulenzer " in german language when i translate it there a lot of words in english possibile, maybe it was a sluggard or a loafer.
by the was it has got a very fine needletrigger and should be a pleasure to shoot.. so far we find out what are the right load and bullet / Patch Ball combination.....

Klaus

Klaus,
A short pistol bullet like the America 38-40 Winchester may be used by sizing it down. This is a true .401 bullet and NOT a .38 and weighs 180 grains.Something to try.
Heute,Ich bin Sehr Faul aber Morgen? Wer Kennen.

Bob Roller

Curt J · « **Reply #12 on:** September 03, 2015, 06:01:34 PM »

This rifle is fairly typical of schuetzen rifles made by George Beuttenmuller. There are two such rifles pictured in my book,GUNMAKERS OF ILLINOIS 1683-1900, Vol. I on pages 67 and 68. The trigger guard on this one is similar, but different. Note that the forward extension on the trigger guard also serves as a palm rest. I have a jaeger rifle by George Beuttenmuller, Chicago, that is relief carved and has a wooden trigger guard. I have never measured the twist in any of his Schuetzen rifles, but I do have one by one of his competitors, R. Grimm, Chicago, that is one turn in 22 inches, definitely a bullet gun. I would guess that this one is similar.

George Beuttenmuller first appears in Chicago City Directories in 1853. His first shop was at 44 LaSalle Street. Subsequent addresses were 178 Washington Street, 1854 - 1861; 180 Washington Street, 1862-1863; 188 Washington Street, 1864-1867; 116 Wells Street, 1868-1871; 89 West Randolph Street, 1872-1874; 151 West Randolph Street, 1875-1880; 78 5th Avenue, 1888; and 155 Randolph in 1893.

The 1860 census lists him as a gunsmith in the 4th Ward, City of Chicago. He was then 39 years old, born in Wurttemberg, Germany. He owned real estate valued at $200. In 1870, he had no real estate value listed, but his personal estate was valued at $10,000. He was a member of a loosely organized group called the "Burger-Schuetzengesellschaft" that shot along the lake-shore, during the 1850's. They were officially organized as the Chicago Schuetzenverein in June of 1863.

George Beuttenmuller had a younger brother, Frederick Beuttenmuller,Sr., who made very similar rifles in Joliet, Will County, Illinois.

Klaus · « **Reply #13 on:** September 04, 2015, 11:24:25 AM »

@ Ron
thx a lot for your kind online help here in this topic

@ Bob and Curt

thx for your hints and further infos about Mr.Beutenmüller

we will try to use the patch ball first because the shot bullet my friend use before was unsuccesful

keep you informed

KLaus

Klaus · « **Reply #14 on:** September 04, 2015, 11:38:18 AM »

@TOF

may you will be so kind and tell me about your Load,Powder e.g. and post a picture from your Rifle

your help will be appreciated

thx Klaus

T*O*F · « **Reply #15 on:** September 05, 2015, 11:34:38 PM »

Klaus,
Here are the pics of my rifle. It was built in Iowa, but by George Burns, an English gunmaker who worked for several prestigious firms there during his career. He built it while visiting his brother during an extended stay upon his retirement.

This was the cerrosafe casting I took from the bullet starter, but I never had a mold made for it.

Additional pics of the rifle:

Klaus · « **Reply #16 on:** September 08, 2015, 05:48:38 PM »

Hello TOF

thx a lot for your pics.
Very Nice Rifle!

may you can tell me about your Load/ Ball/ Patch Combination

@all

here is the Bullet he was using but it seems to be to long for the twist of the Rifle.
Bullet was nearly an inch..

[/URL]][URL=http://s1009.photobucket.com/user/KlausSchmitz-50/media/20150905_122242_zpsfec0cdqj.jpg.html]

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All Bullets scattered crosswise into the papertarget. we have try this with different Loads between 39 - 25 grs of Swiss FFg Powder
This Bullet fits the Bore perfectely but the result is .... bad

Ok by the way another Rife he named his own
Made by Mr. Ackerman from Elass Lothringen

[/URL]][URL=http://s1009.photobucket.com/user/KlausSchmitz-50/media/20150905_122412_zpspzwuzmbt.jpg.html]

[/URL]

[/URL]][URL=http://s1009.photobucket.com/user/KlausSchmitz-50/media/20150905_122336_zpsiiol79c7.jpg.html]

[/URL]

more Info will send with my next reply

sorry again for the doubles but i do klick very fast and short in the IMG Field but can not avoide the doubles

regards Klaus

T*O*F · « **Reply #17 on:** September 08, 2015, 09:27:10 PM »

Quote

may you can tell me about your Load/ Ball/ Patch Combination

Frankly, I don't remember. I just took it to our monthly shoot once to give it a try. The balls were .375 and .019 ticking loaded thru the false muzzle. I imagine the powder was Goex 3f around 50 grains, but don't remember exactly.

Quote

here is the Bullet he was using but it seems to be to long for the twist of the Rifle.
Bullet was nearly an inch..

I recently took the gun to Friendship to shoot in the Schuetzen match just for kicks. I used the same bullet as I used for my long range rifle which is also .38 caliber. The bullets weigh 378 grains and were sized down to .374. They were a drop fit in the barrel. I tried 55, 60, and 70 grains of Schuetzen 3f and couldn't even hit the target. Some hit in the dirt 20 yards in front of the target and others passed over the top of it. I feel the bullet was way too long and was tumbling immediately after leaving the muzzle. This was at the 100 meter target.....for obvious reasons, I didn't even try 200 meters.

As Bob suggested earlier, I think a short .38 caliber pistol bullet is the way to go, after being appropriately sized.

.38 Large · « **Reply #18 on:** September 09, 2015, 02:50:48 AM »

Klaus- my "Worterbuch der Waffen Technik" does not have a translation for FAULENZER, but someone once told me these double set triggers with the adjustable spring was for the shooter to hold tension forward, against the spring, then relax the finger resulting in a clean break on the trigger. I've tried this and it works in theory, but I have never actually fired a shot with this arrangement Your translation makes sense using this setup.

Klaus · « **Reply #19 on:** September 09, 2015, 11:44:11 AM »

@ TOF, yes you will be right, a short bullet will solve this problem
We try to get one out of the hole buch of Moulds my Friend have ...

@.38 Large
yes, this part of the triggerguard support the other hand to hold the Rifle quiet.
will post a picture about this later...

Klaus

Bob Roller · « **Reply #20 on:** September 09, 2015, 01:58:30 PM »

Quote from: Klaus on September 09, 2015, 11:44:11 AM

@ TOF, yes you will be right, a short bullet will solve this problem
We try to get one out of the hole buch of Moulds my Friend have ...

@.38 Large
yes, this part of the triggerguard support the other hand to hold the Rifle quiet.
will post a picture about this later...

Klaus

The 38-40 Winchester bullet is in reality a 401 and weighs the same as 2 forty caliber round balls.

Bob Roller

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