Browning a lock in the Desert Problems

[Thawk]

So I started to brown a small Siler.  The steps I took are listed.
1. I polished it down to 400 grit. 

2. Wiped everything off with windex.

3. Applied Laurel Mountain Browning Solution with a Q-Tip and waited 3 hours.  Everything turned either blue black or copperish and blotchy.  With the exception of the border of the lock plate that slopes down to the edge of the lock plate Which was a nice even rust brown.

4. Carded it back with an old pair of jeans. 

5. Reapplied Browning Solution and put the pieces in the shower after running it.  I thought I might need more humidity.

6. Waited and Carded.  Same result.  Blue Black and blotchy and less copper color.

7.  Repeated for a third time in a tupperware with sponges of water to up the humidity more.  Same result.

At this point I figured there was for sure a problem so I sanded everything back to metal (220 then 320) except the frizzem which I sanded but it only turned all blue/black in spots.

Does anyone have a clue what happened and recommendations?  I wondered if the original wiping with Windex left something behind.  I need to get t his right before I move on to the barrel.

[PPatch]

Sounds like you are applying too much pressure with your applicator (Q-tip), you only want a very very light touch. LMF browning solution is pretty worry free, after about three coats any of those dark spots and coppery stuff will disappear to be replaced by brown, it takes that for things to even out. Do put the parts in a humid environment, it does not take much humidity. Don't go too quick with the browning, control it, it should take somewhere around 5-6 hours between coats, do card after each browning session (remove the reddish stuff). You should be done after about 6-7 coats. To stop the process I heat the metal a bit (not too hot) and apply oil liberally.

dave

[smallpatch]

First of all, 400 grit is WAY to polished.  Stop at 220.  It causes the brown to bead up and get blotchy. Degrease with 409 and dry.
Second, do not rub the brown around. Once pass with a damp cloth.
Download the LMF instruction sheet.

This stuff is the easiest, most forgiving stuff you can use.

I live in the AZ desert, and use a damp box, just because it's more consistent.

[bama]

Try using less solution. If it puddles anywhere you are using to much solution. Once you have the part clean lightly dampen whatever you are using as an applicator and only make one light pass to an area. Do not go over it twice or rub it, if you do you will get the coppering effect. Once this happens I have never been able to get that area to brown well, sand it back re-clean and reapply.

It is an easy product to use but you do have to pay attention to the instructions on how to apply it.

After the first application you metal should turn a light blueish gray. You will be able to see if you missed any spots, after this has dried, about 30 minutes or so apply your second coating of solution. This coat should start to turn brown after 3 or 4 hours. Card this and reapply.

The second and third plus coats can be applied pretty liberally, it's the first coat that you have to be carefull with.

[T*O*F]

If all else fails, sand it back to 220 and give it a wipe with muriatic acid on a cotton ball.  It should start rusting in short order.  Then card it and continue with LMF.  The acid will give it something to bite to.

[davec2]

Here is a link I posted on making and using a cheap, throw way damp box.  Controlling the humidity a little more makes a huge difference in the ease and consistency of the browning operation.

http://americanlongrifles.org/forum/index.php?topic=21382.0

[FALout]

How long are you waiting to card?  In your post, #3, it sounds like your carding 3 hours after applying solution, if so, wait till the next day.  You have the right idea about using the shower.  As already stated, making a large box with a door, then using low wattage bulb to heat some water works well.  I do this during the winter when it is really dry in my shop.

[Curt Larsen]

Like others have said, LMF is pretty forgiving.  I've never had trouble with it.  I think that you should use a soft cotton flannel cleaning patch instead of the Q-Tip.  The Q-Tip holds way too much solution.
Curt

[oldtravler61]

No expert. But have always prepped my barrels an locks with denatured alcohol. After I have them ready to brown. Then I use an artists brush to apply my solution. All parts are hung vertically and have never had the solution puddle . It works this way for me. But like I said am no expert. Hope this helps.

[CHARLY]

 Can anyone clarify exactly what those browning solutions contain?
  Here in the  African bush --I use weak acids --ie copper sulphate

 or dilute hydrochloric or battery acid ( diluted  H2SO4)

seems to rust every thing ---reddish brown

but when the book says ----neutralise with soda after 48 hrs
 it all wipes off --
 --so --
I merely wipe everything with linseed oil
(that works --but not pretty --all blotchy patches )

maybe just paint the lock ---end of story ?

[Scota4570]

Buy a quart of Birchwood Casey.

I can not get slow brown to work either.  It is too cold and dry in my location.  Damp boxes are not easy to regulate and they take up space. 

I use the BC.  It will after rust.  I take advantage of that by hanging my part in the warmest dampest place in my back yard for a day.  For me that is under grape vines, next to the lawn and fence.  It will get warm and high humidity for a few hours a day. 

In the West we don't have hot humid summers.  The old methods simply don't get much traction.  IF you are in Blythe or something you are not going to get much rust. 

[jerrywh]

Laurel Mountain browning solution is the best in the world in my opinion.  400 grit finish is just fine.
 If you are getting a copper coating you are applying too much solution. Don't use a Q-tip. Use a small piece or cotton rag about the size of a dime not polyester. Polyester is the next thing to a plastic bag. When you apply the solution the rag should only be damp not soaking wet. I usually blot my rag on a paper towel before applying the solution so it won't be too wet. I hold the rag with a set of forceps. It is not uncommon for the metal to turn bluish afterwards. When it is bluish colored it means the solution is not dry.  The best temp for browning is about 80° but you can brown below that temp. It just takes longer.   Below 65° and it will be very hard.
   I have two different ways I use to humidify. For small parts I haven't found anything better than a damp cardboard box.  For barrels the same will do just fine if you can find a big enough box. I also use a log thin metal tank. I suspend the barrel in the tank and put damp newspaper over the top of the tank. Occasionally I will spray the paper with a spray bottle.  If the part stays blue too long I remove the paper and let the barrel sit until it looks rusty. Then I brush with a slow speed .003 wire brush.  I run the brush in the drill press to control the speed at about 600 rpm.
  Remember if the part is still blue you just need to wait longer. Don't be in a hurry. Work on something else until the part is rusty looking.  I personally don’t believe in wiping with burlap but that is a personal choice.   Watashi has spoke.

[Thawk]

Below 65° and it will be very hard.
   

Ahhh That may be part of the problem.  The heat turns off half hour before I leave for work and doesn't turn on till a half hour before I get home.  It's not uncommon for it to be in the mid to upper 50's when I get home.  Especially with the temp dropping in the low 20's here this week.


And a Thank You to everyone who chimed in.  I really appreciate all the help and suggestions.  If I get it right I'll post pics.  Otherwise it may never be seen by anyone.