Powder charge...

[rick landes]

I am test firing a .54 swamped Rice barrel in a Lancaster stock.

The front sight is about 1/4 high about 1 1/2" max back from the muzzle, the rear sight is about 9" ahead of the breech plug. The rear sight is a dovetailed into place typical primitive style sight with a jewelers saw blade width notch.

Test loads at 25 yards are great ( about in the same hole) with about 45-55 grains FF and a greased .018 pillowtick patch . Then when moving out to 100 yards I am needing to fire a 100 gr FF charge to get the ball 3" high, groups are very good.

 My question is how does this match with others experience. I am thinking this seems a rather high charge for this range/rifle/barrel. I am also thinking about the hold over for 200 yards...

What do you all think???

[BrownBear]

For 100 yard shooting a charge of 100 grains of 2F in a 54 cal isn't out of line at all.  I am kinda surprised however that you are 3" high at 100 yards with the same sight picture that's right on the money at 25 yards- without regard for the powder charge that you're using.

I usually sight in dead on at 50 yards with my hunting load (90 grains rather than 100), which puts me 4-5" low at 100 yards, meanwhile my POI is right on the money at 25 yards.  My sight height is little different from yours, but the POI is little changed at either 50 or 25 yards when using my standard 54 cal small game charge of 35 grains of 3f, BTW.  At 100 yards the POI for that 35 grain charge would be lots lower I'm sure, but I haven't tried it.  If I was intent on longer range shooting I'd probably sight in at 75 yards rather than 50, anticipating a POI of around 2-3" low at 100.

As for 200 yards?  With a 100 grain charge hitting 3" low at 100, the POI at 200 is lots lower than I'd ever consider for hunting.

All those 100-200 yard #'s verge on theoretical for me though, because I've done darned little of it.  I'm just not a long range shooter.  Hat's off to the #'s provided by anyone else who does lots of long shooting.

[northmn]

My recommendation is to shoot at 200 yards on a large target and draw your own conclusions.  I shoot about 120 grains of 2f in my 54 with a 1-72" twist and get very good accuracy at 100 yards.  Some like 3-f and shoot a lighter charge of 80-90 grains.  While 2f may foul more, that is of little consequence on a hunting load and it is said to give lower pressures.  Your loads sound about right for what is reported as typical 54 charges.

DP

[Roger Fisher]

Well now Rick, you don't s
ay if you are burning Swiss or someother powder...
Assume it is not Swiss and your 100 yd result is 3" high we'll assume you mean 3 inches above the X ring...!  So, did you try 80 to 90 of the 2 f you are using?  That should put you closer to that 10 ring..!

I shoot 75 3 f Goex or Schuetzen in my offhand rifle, at 100 yds.    (But then I am shooting one of those puny little .45s!

[Dphariss]

1/2 ball weight of powder is not excessive, especially  FFG.
For flattest trajectory it should be about 2.5" high at 60 yards. Assuming you are getting 1750-1850mfps.

Dan

[Mike R]

I am sighting in a.54 Rice 44"swamped barrel, but got interrupted.  I have had to file down the front quite a bit to get  a load of 85 gr ffg  on the paper!  It is shooting low for me--now it is about 5-6" low [and a bit right] at 50 yds with not alot of sight left to file [but enough] using 85 gr ffg [.530 ball].  I have not tried 100 yds yet for obvious reasons.  I am considering trying fffg before hacking any more sight off--or going to a higher load.  This is curious to me because my .54 Getz barreled rifle shoots center with that load at 50 yds.

[Dphariss]

I am sighting in a.54 Rice 44"swamped barrel, but got interrupted.  I have had to file down the front quite a bit to get  a load of 85 gr ffg  on the paper!  It is shooting low for me--now it is about 5-6" low [and a bit right] at 50 yds with not alot of sight left to file [but enough] using 85 gr ffg [.530 ball].  I have not tried 100 yds yet for obvious reasons.  I am considering trying fffg before hacking any more sight off--or going to a higher load.  This is curious to me because my .54 Getz barreled rifle shoots center with that load at 50 yds.

Before changing powders sight it in. Going to finer powder or higher velocity probably will not change he impact a 50 yards much.
You may need a  higher rear.
Sounds like the barrel is bent, bore is not straight or the bore is not in line with exterior.
Dan

[Snakebite]

In my 34" .54 Douglas XX Hawken halfstock, my pet loads are 60grs at 25yards, 75grs at 50 yards and 110grs at 100 yds, Goex FF.  I've had people tell me it's way too much powder, that would kick too hard, etc, etc, ad nauseum, but it works for me.  Aim dead on at those ranges with my rifle and it'll hit center. 

[wireman]

Well i use 85 3f in my 54 31" put me about 3" high at 50 and center at 100 most of the time.

[Dphariss]

In my 34" .54 Douglas XX Hawken halfstock, my pet loads are 60grs at 25yards, 75grs at 50 yards and 110grs at 100 yds, Goex FF.  I've had people tell me it's way too much powder, that would kick too hard, etc, etc, ad nauseum, but it works for me.  Aim dead on at those ranges with my rifle and it'll hit center. 

I have a Douglas that is simply useless if I drop the velocity much under 1800. I had a Sharon on a percussion Hawken that would not shoot decent groups with less than 120 gr FFFG.
I use my rifles for hunting in most cases so I tend to use the same load for everything so I know where it shoots with that load regardless of range.

Dan

[northmn]

I can agree that at 50 yards if the rifle is shooting low with little sight left that one would be better off changing rear sights.  As to the windage, nothing was said of how far to the right.  Minor adjustments can be made.  those loads for the Douglas are very close to what I shoot in my 54, which is a Montana Barrel if I remember. It got tapered in a machine shop before I bought it and has no markings.   Usually I ahve found that ML's will accept a range of loads and perform pretty satisfactory with them, but I have seen exceptions.  My 32's were pretty fussy and tended to like one load for accuracy, which was a little hot for their hunting use.  This was in both Douglas and GM barrels.  A 58 I had liked two charges, one 70 grains of 3f the other over 120.  Anything else and even offhand you could tell the difference.  For some, acceptable precision is pretty near one hole groups, for others a little less.  Kind of personal.

DP

[rick landes]

Thank you all for your input.
I am using a powder called "Lidu". It seems to be a bit faster than Geox and has a nice somewhat "silvery" look to it. I do not know but was told that the silveriness was a sign of a better powder.

I will be shooting this over a chronograph, just for fun mostly, but velocities do tell of pressures too.

I am happy for the assurances that this is within what the groups "normal" loads are.

With regards to the 200 yards shots, I doubt I would at this point with this arm try that range (based more on my abilities than those most likely present in the arm). However, I am sure, since I just rebuilt my range and set up a 200 yard target mound; I will be trying it on paper!

With regards to "Mr. Bear" the trajectories at the 25/50 and 100 yard ranges ... You may be correct in your surprise as I did do this shooting over several weekends and WENT from a start of 25 yds to 50 to finally 100 and I did adjust loads thru out this process...sorry for the lack of detail there  and thanks for the correction


To Mr Fisher...I am meaning over the center of a 1" sq. that I use as my POA.

Thanks as always for your interest and help!!!!

[Roger Fisher]

Thank you all for your input.
I am using a powder called "Lidu". It seems to be a bit faster than Geox and has a nice somewhat "silvery" look to it. I do not know but was told that the silveriness was a sign of a better powder.

I will be shooting this over a chronograph, just for fun mostly, but velocities do tell of pressures too.

I am happy for the assurances that this is within what the groups "normal" loads are.

With regards to the 200 yards shots, I doubt I would at this point with this arm try that range (based more on my abilities than those most likely present in the arm). However, I am sure, since I just rebuilt my range and set up a 200 yard target mound; I will be trying it on paper!

With regards to "Mr. Bear" the trajectories at the 25/50 and 100 yard ranges ... You may be correct in your surprise as I did do this shooting over several weekends and WENT from a start of 25 yds to 50 to finally 100 and I did adjust loads thru out this process...sorry for the lack of detail there  and thanks for the correction


To Mr Fisher...I am meaning over the center of a 1" sq. that I use as my POA.

Thanks as always for your interest and help!!!!

Never used 'Lidu' but if I am not wrong that is powder shipped over here a few or more yrs ago from China!!!  I can't knock it since I never used it.  If I were sighting in a rifle I would try to use powder that is readily available. i.e. Goex, Schuetzen or of course the top shelf Swiss.  I have a notion that the Lidu doesn't have the Oomph that the rest have and you may find this to be true when you use the Chrony!  Let us know how you make out.  You will surely need less powder if you go to the Swiss or even the Goex or Schuetzen.   I use either Goex or Schuetzen without changing anything.!

[swordmanjohn]

    Whenever I site in a gun I first site it to 25 yards. At that point it should be high at 50 yards, and near dead on at 100. The act of trajectory will be high at the midway point. Try shooting at 100 before you do anymore filing just yet.                                                                                                                                                                                                               

I am sighting in a.54 Rice 44"swamped barrel, but got interrupted.  I have had to file down the front quite a bit to get  a load of 85 gr ffg  on the paper!  It is shooting low for me--now it is about 5-6" low [and a bit right] at 50 yds with not alot of sight left to file [but enough] using 85 gr ffg [.530 ball].  I have not tried 100 yds yet for obvious reasons.  I am considering trying fffg before hacking any more sight off--or going to a higher load.  This is curious to me because my .54 Getz barreled rifle shoots center with that load at 50 yds.

[Daryl]

SWJohn - After working up a load at 50 yards, I sight a gun, normally possessing relatively low sights, for a 25 meters point blank zero. This usually gives me a 1/2" high impact at 50 meters and with my currrent .40 and top-end accuracy load, a seemingly, a drop at 100 meters of only 2 1/2". More testing will be necessary, of course.  My accuracy load with LHV and a .400' ball is 65gr. GOEX3F for 2,147fps.  75gr. of 2FGO
EX gives the same accuracy at 2,160fps, but strikes an inch lower at 50 yards and 4 1/2" low at 100.