Committee of Safety Muskets

[northmn]

I was going to write this on the NW Trade Gun thread but decided I would like to see it pursued by itself.  I liked the Bess but did not like the way it fit.  There was a reason I saw a bunch of originals at Fort William with the butt hollowed out for cheek placement.  I sold the Bess and built a 12 gauge Committe of Safety Musket that fit.  When an individual distracted me at a BP trap shoot, I ended up loading a double charge of powder, about 170 grains behind a 1 1/4 of shot.  I knew it was a double charge when I shot it, but the gun fit so well it really did not hurt all that much.  Had I shot the Bess it would have nearly broke ones in my cheek.  I sold the gun a few years ago or I would try to post it as it was a pretty gun made out of cherry wood.  I guess I am just surprised that I do not see more of these built as they permit the builder far more expression than a fowler or trade gun and are more appropriate in a wider range of gauges.

DP

[Elnathan]

I guess I am just surprised that I do not see more of these built as they permit the builder far more expression than a fowler or trade gun and are more appropriate in a wider range of gauges.
DP

How so? With trade guns I can see your point, but fowlers come in pretty much any shape, size, and bore you want, it seems. On the other hand, Committee of Safety Muskets were built to a standard, albeit one that varied somewhat from state to state and doesn't always seem to have been followed very closely, and generally resembled British muskets with .75 bores. American-built muskets in general, as distinct from C of S. muskets, allow a bit more latitude, if that is what you are thinking of.
I suspect that if we were allowed to hunt waterfowl with lead shot, there would be more interest in large-bore smothbores in general. As it is, most people seem to find a 20 gauge sufficient for their needs, and in any case are disinclined to lug around a musket - built heavy for durability in the hands of soldiers - when they can use a lighter fowler.

[northmn]

In the book I reviewed on militia muskets, there were very loose standards and the muskets were often had shimmel type hardware or hardware borrowed off of other firearms.  They are another form of firearm we just do not see often.  A fowler usually has a elaborate buttplate and trigger guard and is generally a fancier gun and often built in larger bores also.  Some are building fowler 10 gauges.  The NW trade gun and Fusil DeChase are established patterns that allow little lattitude.  Also historically, the militia muskets were common and important.  My cherry wood 12 was far lighter than a rifle.  the individual I sold it to loves the thing and I have heard from many of his friends that he uses it for about everything, from grouse hunting to deer hunting.  Steel shot can be used in a big bore ML for duck hunting, and some like myself prefer heavier bores than a 20 as a 12 will handle 20 gauge laods better than a 20 will handle 12 gauge loads.

DP

[Elnathan]

Committee of Safety muskets were built to contracts from the Committees of Safety between 1775 and 1777, and are mostly copies of the Short Land Pattern Musket. Militia muskets are a different thing, being basically an American made-musket of any type. "Fowler" basically designates a smoothbore that doesn't fall into another category, can come in any caliber between .50 and 10 gauge, and could be anything from  silvermounted to shimmel-type - there are plenty of recycled parts shown in Grinslades's book, and at least one without a buttplate. Furthermore, the line between militia muskets and fowlers can be kind of blurry at times - is a smoothbore built with the lines of a New England fowler, but cut back at the muzzle for a bayonet a fowler or a musket?

There was a fellow on the old board that was making a parts-built musket based after one in a Neumann article, but he seems to have dropped of the face of the earth a year or so back. I myself have "smoothbore" on the "to build eventually list", and have been thinking about a militia musket of that sort.

[T*O*F]

There are subtle differences in terminology that confuse these discussions somewhat.

A smoothbore is any gun that is bored smooth, regardless of its use.
A shotgun is any gun that shoots shot.

A musket is a smoothbore used for military purposes, usually with provisions for a bayonet.  Their design is strictly for that purpose, volley fire in close ranks according to the tactics of the time.  Many were designed with straight combs and short pulls to encourage recoil because in the heat of battle, many soldiers didn't know if their guns even went off.

A trade gun was built on quasi-military lines because that's what the Indians were familiar with and rifles hadn't made an appearance yet.  They were multi-purpose firearms used for war and hunting of all types and were able to use both ball and shot.  Later they evolved into trade rifles.

A true fowler is built expressly for hunting fowl and their barrel lengths and bore size dictated which.  There were short barrelled guns for close-in fast handling and long barrelled guns for long shots at geese, cranes, swans, and passenger pigeons.

Each was a specialty type of firearm the individual terms have come to be used interchangeably.

[Elnathan]

TOF,
what would you call a general purpose smoothbore like most of those long barreled New England firelocks?

[T*O*F]

TOF,
what would you call a general purpose smoothbore like most of those long barreled New England firelocks?

The answer is another question.......what did they call it back then?
Pick a Date.  Research and reply back.  I will attempt to do the same.
No speculation.....provide source and context.  (anyone may join in)

Fowling piece and fusee (fusil) were in common usage I believe.  I think firelock was a military drill term.  I doubt we will find any references to "flinter" or "smoothy"

[James Rogers]

 I doubt we will find any references to "flinter" or "smoothy"

  "Remmy" from Remington also makes me cringe.  Seems to remove all masculinity whatsoever.  Never heard those terms 'til I got on the net.

I have been  looking for the period use of the term "fowler".  So far, it has been used to describe the person and not the implement.

In many colonial VA documents, I have found the term "gun" or  "smooth bored gun" used most often for any gun that is not a rifle. That would cover all of the various types.

I would guess any of the smoothe guns stocked in the Northern colonies would offer the most room for the most "expression" as they were using a wide variety and mixture of barrels and other parts from both fowling pieces and muskets.  Some look like English fowling pieces and others look like muskets. They also had access to a wide variety and mixture of styling. (French, English, and Dutch).

[Jim Filipski]

I have been  looking for the period use of the term "fowler".  So far, it has been used to describe the person and not the implement.

I have not been able to find that reference either.  Pretty sure "fowler" is an adopted modern term.
Unless anyone can provide documentation of it use before the 19th century(?)
You will find gun, gonne ( and other altered spellings ) busche and a few others for the common civilian smooth bored pieces of the time. Military- most times the term will be musket. Maybe to distinguish between the heavier build of the military arm
Jim

[northmn]

I think TOF made the point well when he mentioned the militarism of a musket.  There had always been a fine line between musket which seems to be a gun designed to use a bayonet, both with attachments and structure, fussee, fusil, fowler and whatever.  The Trade guns were commonly called fusils or fukes in literature.  Some smaller bored military muskets were called fukes, fusses or fusils (even though they might be about 69 bore)  I remember reading about the difference between carbines and short rifles.  They were so small I would have to look up article to remember which was which.  I guess the pictures I saw may not have  been categorized the same as in other books.  What that individual called Committee of Safety muskets may have been applied to all militia muskets, kind of like saying Appalachian Rifles are Tennessee Mountain rifles.  Regardless I still think they were neat and an important part of our history that has been overlooked.

DP

[Dr. Tim-Boone]

In Bartram's Travels during the 1770s and published in the 1780s he calls the gun he carried a fusil. used it for shooting birds, deer & gators!! I am assuming it was smoothbore but he doesn't mention that as I can recall.

[Dr. Tim-Boone]

The "Committee of safety musket" was one made by a private gunsmith under specific contract to a committee or council of safety , and the term does not include domestic and foreign weapons purchased and used by those bodies. (Ibid., 180) Since state governments soon were created and took over procurement, "the period of the true Committee of Safety musket lasted only two or three years and the number of guns was remarkably small." Ibid., 182)

In Ga, the Committtee apparently went on the open market to buy muskets from elsewhere as there were not enough sources in GA,  They alloweed the only trade of rice and cotton etc fromm GA to be for muskets, field pieces and powder & shot..

Interestingly, I read that a NY Committeeordered several hundred weight of lead and half as many hundred weight of powder...

[Elnathan]

Not sure about "fowler," but "fowling piece" is certainly an old phrase - Shakespeare uses it in The Merry Wives of Windsor.

[James Rogers]

Not sure about "fowler," but "fowling piece" is certainly an old phrase - Shakespeare uses it in The Merry Wives of Windsor.

Yep. I have seen "fowling piece" often.

here is one from 1750 PA. I add it because of the description of the gun is interesting.

Philadelphia, September 27. 1750. Pa gazette

Whereas the store of Joseph Saunders, on Rees Meredith's Wharff, was broke open on Thursday night, the 20th inst. and sundry goods, to a considerable value, stolen, all of which mention'd in an advertisement of the 21st inst. were the next day found, except a canister of congo tea, containing about ten pounds, (and a fowling piece, and a new shot pouch , and a brass spring, and an old powder flask, with a spring to the charger, not then mention'd) The fowling piece is very remarkable, viz. It has a short stock, the upper end tipp'd with brass, with a small steel spring in the side, to fasten on a brass ring to keep the barrel to the stock; which ring, if taken off, by lifting the barrel, it comes out of the stock, the intention being to put in another barrel at Pleasure. Whoever secures said tea and fowling piece, &c. so that I may have them again, shall receive Three Pounds reward; and if the thief or thieves with them, so that he or they may be brought to justice, TEN POUNDS reward, paid by JOSEPH SAUNDERS