Author Topic: After rust &%*#%! (Read 9213 times)

Eric Krewson · « **on:** July 26, 2016, 04:08:32 PM »

This the second barrel I have rust browned, the first stopped rusting with the application of dilute lye, rinse, heat and an application of motor oil.

This one has had two ammonia baths about 3 days apart, heat and motor oil and is still rusting about the same amount every day. I did let the initial rusting rough up the surface a bit before I tried neutralizing the acid, I also put more applications of LMF on the barrel than I did on my first barrel.

I hit it with Barricade yesterday and could card off some rust this morning.

I ran the search feature and saw all the possible solutions for this problem but so far on day 5 I still have rust to card off every morning.

All my other steel parts have stopped rusting after the second ammonia bath, I submerged many of the small parts in ammonia for a while on the second go round.

What should I try next?

My first barrel was a Rice and I went to 400 grit sandpaper on it, this one is a Green Mountain, I stopped at 220 on it.

rich pierce · « **Reply #1 on:** July 26, 2016, 04:36:52 PM »

It should peter out. I'd give it 2-3 more cleanings. I bet it settles down.

Curt Lyles · « **Reply #2 on:** July 26, 2016, 05:03:08 PM »

Eric make you a paste of borax or washing soda and apply that rigorously that should do it. It's been awhile since I've done a barrel or lock or hardware but that's what I always used and it works after Laurel Mountain Forge products

Eric Krewson · « **Reply #3 on:** July 26, 2016, 05:41:49 PM »

I degreased the barrel with lacquer thinner this morning, gave it a good scrub with a lye and water mixture, and rinsed the lye off with plenty boiling water. I heated and dried the barrel with my torch and gave it another motor oil bath.

Wee will see........

frogwalking · « **Reply #4 on:** July 26, 2016, 06:31:13 PM »

This is why I don't assemble parts until I know they have stopped rusting. This time, instead of oil, I coated the hot parts in bees wax. It has seemed to work so far. Others have said to use linseed oil. but I have not tried that.

P.W.Berkuta · « **Reply #5 on:** July 26, 2016, 07:03:09 PM »

Quote from: Eric Krewson on July 26, 2016, 05:41:49 PM

I degreased the barrel with lacquer thinner this morning, gave it a good scrub with a lye and water mixture, and rinsed the lye off with plenty boiling water. I heated and dried the barrel with my torch and gave it another motor oil bath.

Wee will see........

Do you think that all the extra steps - i.e. -lye and water mixture - boiling water - dried with my torch - did not add to the problem

. Base solutions can rust metal also (once the acid has been neutralized)- heat can accelerrate it - and water -- just saying???

Mark Elliott · « **Reply #6 on:** July 27, 2016, 02:32:10 AM »

I either draw file or sand to 320 grit. I don't do anything to stop the rusting except wash with a a soda bath(not always) and apply wax. I rub with wax daily and the rusting stops in a few days. I generally depend on the continued rusting to deepen the color. I just consider it part of the finishing.

snapper · « **Reply #7 on:** July 27, 2016, 04:51:45 AM »

I make a thick paste out of baking soda. Rub it in with both hand aggressively. wash with cold water, oil.

That has always worked for me.

Fleener

B Shipman · « **Reply #8 on:** July 27, 2016, 05:56:30 AM »

I use a saturated solution of sodium hydroxide. Put it on, let it dry, wash it off. I dry the barrel with a torch but I don't think it's a must. Apply gun oil. No after rust. I've been doing it this way without a hitch for over 35 years. Strong bases can cause rust but not nearly to the extent of acids. Or we'd be using bases.
I would avoid things other than oil. IMHO this just messes things up. But everybody has their thing that works.

Eric Krewson · « **Reply #9 on:** July 27, 2016, 06:18:20 AM »

The rusting stopped completely on the buttt plate and trigger guard after the lye treatment. I will check the barrel tomorrow and see how it came out.

Eric Krewson · « **Reply #10 on:** July 27, 2016, 03:59:58 PM »

I have a really deep color on my mountings, no rust now.

The barrel is still rusting;

Long John · « **Reply #11 on:** July 27, 2016, 04:08:47 PM »

Eric,

I'll tell you what I do. I don't hold myself out as an expert but my process has worked for me consistently.

I first plug the muzzle and flash-hole. Then I wash the barrel real good with hot water and Dawn dish detergent and rinse with lots of fresh water. From that point on I wear canvas gardening gloves while working.

I use LMF browning reagent. I apply reagent every 3 to 4 hours carding between applications. The barrel rests in a "browning box" between applications. I card with either burlap or wool blanket cloth, sometimes both. Usually in the latter applications carding is exclusively with the wool.

When the carding starts to reveal black oxide on the cloth I take that as evidence that the process is done. I might give it one or two more doses, carding off to a smooth finish between doses. I REALLY LIKE the LMF reagent.

When the browning is done I get a cup of wood ash from the fireplace and mix it with warm water to which I add a little Dawn detergent. I then spend about 1/2 an hour washing the barrel with this brew. I then rinse off with cold fresh water, usually from a garden hose, flooding the barrel for several minutes.

I then dry the barrel with paper towels and FLOOD the barrel with WD-40. Really flood it! You want to displace ALL the water that is still in the pores of the steel and its oxide coating.

I then wipe the barrel off with paper towels and put it on a pair of wood blocks, get my propane torch and heat the barrel and melt bees wax all over the steel. I don't know why you are using motor oil, I won't! (Motor oil contains detergents that are hydrophilic (water loving) and will attach water to the steel.) I play the torch back and forth until the bees wax is flowing over the barrel from end to end and all around. While the wax is still hot I wipe off the excess with some paper towels.

I'm done. Nice bitter-chocolate colored barrel with matte finish and never post rusting issue.

It works for me, Maybe it will work for you.

Best Regards,

John Cholin

Pete G. · « **Reply #12 on:** July 27, 2016, 04:38:02 PM »

Long John makes a good point. Motor oil is formulated to be a lubricant, not a preservative.

J Henry · « **Reply #13 on:** July 27, 2016, 04:50:39 PM »

Rust Happens !!! It is inherent to the metal,,so just clean it and then clean it again.If we shoot often enough there should be no problem,I just clean mine and then spray it all over with Silicon spray,wipe it down and store it where the air can move around it,no gun locker,rifle case, just atmosphere. and a week later clean it again,labor of love!!
I want to try a heated, ultrasonic cleaning tank, like in a machine shop, to see how long it would take to rust again.Should come out clean, beyond clean.
Use to use VVL-800 and LWO (light weapon oil) and silicon spray.
Shoot often and clean after every shooting,and rust will still happen,just part of the fun..What would/did Davy do..
Drink up stream from the herd.

P.W.Berkuta · « **Reply #14 on:** July 27, 2016, 06:42:48 PM »

Like every thing else --- "Rust Happens" --- I like all the answers and will try them and see which one works for me when the time comes this is a good post thanks for starting it Eric. EVENTUALLY the rust process will slow down to a "crawl" (never will it stop). Those parts look nice & dark

.

bgf · « **Reply #15 on:** July 27, 2016, 10:24:52 PM »

This time of year the weather is very conducive to rusting. I built one a few years ago and the metal would rust overnight while working on it, but when I got to the part of cleaning it up and trying to force rust later in the fall/winter, I couldnt get it to rust

. This was in a shop area that is only marginally climate controlled to the extent it won't freeze and is bearable when I'm in there (heat and AC).

My guess is that your rusting process will be harder to kill due to conditions, so just keep at it and it will settle down soon.

Eric Krewson · « **Reply #16 on:** July 27, 2016, 11:13:39 PM »

It has rained almost every day here, very humid.

J Henry · « **Reply #17 on:** July 27, 2016, 11:58:53 PM »

Look at the bright side you have to handle your rifle more often,got to clean it ,,might as well shoot it,see you at the range..

Micah2 · « **Reply #18 on:** July 28, 2016, 03:40:48 AM »

Eric for what its worth, that deep color in the finish you are seeing will be very durable.
I had a barrel that kept rusting like yours. Finally I made my paste of baking soda and water so thick it was like soft ice cream. Grabbing handfulls of it I would "massage" my barrel with a closed fist. The thicker the better because it acts like an abrasive and cards off the rust as you "stroke" it. Make sure and flash dry the steel over a good heat source and drive the moisture out before the oil. I use really nasty burnt motor oil in a bucket that has dead oak leaves and stuff.. By default...

Eric Krewson · « **Reply #19 on:** July 28, 2016, 04:35:53 PM »

The saga continues; Today, rain, more rust, even on things that had stopped rusting.

Today's procedure; A through washing with straight dawn detergent, rinse with very hot water, a scrubbing with baking soda paste slurry, hot water rinse, dry with a torch and Rig gun grease applied in copious amounts while the barrel was still very hot.

I was going to flood the barrel with WD40 but it wasn't on my lubricant shelf. I then remembered I had knocked the can off my work bench some time ago, broken the nozzle off and rendered it unusable.

P.W.Berkuta · « **Reply #20 on:** July 28, 2016, 06:31:40 PM »

Quote from: Eric Krewson on July 28, 2016, 04:35:53 PM

The saga continues; Today, rain, more rust, even on things that had stopped rusting.

Today's procedure; A through washing with straight dawn detergent, rinse with very hot water, a scrubbing with baking soda paste slurry, hot water rinse, dry with a torch and Rig gun grease applied in copious amounts while the barrel was still very hot.

I was going to flood the barrel with WD40 but it wasn't on my lubricant shelf. I then remembered I had knocked the can off my work bench some time ago, broken the nozzle off and rendered it unusable.

I did the same thing with my nozzle on the WD40 spray can. I took my scribe and punched in two holes in the top od the can now I pour out the WD

Daryl · « **Reply #21 on:** July 28, 2016, 07:03:51 PM »

Shake it first! Works for me. I would never put motor oil on a barrel, when there are better oils available - like Hoppe's #9 solvent - it's better than their gun oil. NOT #9 PLUS BP Solvent.

Eric Krewson · « **Reply #22 on:** July 30, 2016, 12:44:37 AM »

I finally tapped out and quit. The rust had become very slight so I rubbed everything down one more time, put a coat of Renaissance wax on everything and did my final assembly.

40 cal, 42" 13/16" Green Mountain barrel, Chambers late Ketland lock, Davis double set triggers.

The project came out pretty good if you don't look too close.

wattlebuster · « **Reply #23 on:** July 30, 2016, 02:31:23 AM »

Eric that is way SHARP. I like it. Excellent job

Daryl · « **Reply #24 on:** July 30, 2016, 03:40:33 AM »

Eric- to my eyes - it is perfect!

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Author Topic: After rust &%*#%! (Read 9213 times)

Micah2