First time gun builder

[Gary Rad]

Hi, I just joined the forum. I would like to build a gun but I never built one before. I was wondering how many poor boy guns there are and where I could get plans for the gun. Would this be a good gun to start with? Also, it would be left handed. Is there any good books or dvds on gun building that would help me?  Any info would be great.
Thanks Gary Rad

[SingleMalt]

Glad to have you here, Gary.  If I were starting out today, I'd start with one of Jim Chamber's kits.  I've never built one, but I've never heard a bad word about them and their customer service is nothing short of wonderful.  I can say that with first hand knowledge..

[Boompa]

  Build from a plank or from a kit of sorts?  There is plenty of reference material. The book, "The Gunsmith of Grenville County" by Peter Alexander is a good reference and he also publishes a DVD.  American Pioneer video has numerous DVDs on building. As for kits, most of them are really just a parts collection with a semi-inletted stock and I personally prefer NOT to have anything but maybe the barrel channel cut and ramrod hole drilled.  I like to do the majority of inletting myself,( lock mortise, triggers, butt plate, and so on).     Having said that, I've recently received one of the southern rifle kits from Jim Kibler and while I haven't started on it yet it's obvious that this the way to go if a guy wants to start with a kit, IMO. These are top quality and if go to Mr Kiblers videos on you-tube he provides instruction although I'm not sure if he has a lefty kit. I've also heard good things about Chambers kits but I've never done one so I can't speak from first hand experience.
     

[coutios]

   First things first... Welcome to the Forum.. Well the first thing we need to know is WHY you want to build a gun? What are you going to use it for ? Next what skills/tools do you bring to the table.. There are KITS out there that require a very large amount of work to Jim Kiblers kit that requires a lot of attention to fine detail.. Most kits will set you back about $1000.00 today. Talk to a lot, handle a lot if you can. You can also chose to go with a plank if you choose. You will get Much help here... Choose wisely...

Regards
Dave

[tlallijr]

 A good book to have is "The Art of Building the Pennsylvania Longrifle" by Chuck Dixon. And here is a link to a set of videos on youtube......

[P.W.Berkuta]

Hi, I just joined the forum. I would like to build a gun but I never built one before. I was wondering how many poor boy guns there are and where I could get plans for the gun. Would this be a good gun to start with? Also, it would be left handed. Is there any good books or dvds on gun building that would help me?  Any info would be great.
Thanks Gary Rad

Since no one here knows your skill level or the tools that you have the best thing I can say now is get some "How to" books - can't have enough of them and a DVD or three - they are also useful. Read and watch first so you will get a flavor of what you are up against . Then pick what rifle you like and want to build. Do not just pick a rifle because it is simple pick one that you LOVE that way you will devote your maximum effort into the build and not get discouraged and stop. I would start with a kit that is pre-shaped, has all the parts for the build, has the barrel inlet & the ram rod hole drilled. I would not have the lock inlet this is something for you to do and place it in the correct position. I would stick with one of the top brand name kits that will give you support when needed. That's about it for now - you have homework to do and your post here is a big start on a long - love/hate road to building your first rifle -- and - don't be in a big hurry to start and finish your project too quickly think first what you are doing before putting the tool to the wood and plan ahead

[moleeyes36]

What P.W.Berkuta said is good advice. 

As far as quality kits are concerned, you will have trouble finding much variety in left hand versions.  Jim Chambers' Isaac Haines is offered in a lefty version http://www.flintlocks.com/rifles02.htm.  Unfortunately Jim Kibler doesn't offer any left hand kits. 

If you want to look at some other options you might want to check out one of the Fred Miller patterns that Dave Keck offers in left handed version http://knobmountainmuzzleloading.com/Fredstockspage2.html.  You can get the stock with just the barrel inletted, ram rod grove inletted, and ram rod hole drilled or you can have the butt stock shaped for you as well.  In the case of the 1780 Lancaster, Dave sells all the brass furniture for it.  You only major parts you supply are the barrel, lock, and trigger.

Mole Eyes

[Goo]

I would suggest an inexpensive kit or a cheap yard sale or classified find of a finnished gun then take it apart and make it gracefull and put a nice finnish on it .    I think you will learn a lot without being into the project for a bunch of cash.

[PPatch]

Hello Gary;

Welcome to ALR! Tell us a little about your interest in the longrifle, what you intend to use it for, and the caliber you prefer. Do you have experience in woodworking? Experience isn't totally necessary, but it helps if you have butchered some wood before taking on a gun building project. Of course you'll need some hand tools also. And to know how to sharpen those that need it. Also, there might be another builder(s) in your area that may be willing to guide you in a build. Perhaps you could hook up by asking in the forum here.

The great thing is there is a world of help here on ALR and folks will be happy to lead you through a build, anytime you come up against something puzzling or get stumped or just want to know - ASK (before you cut). Generally a kit is recommended for an inexperienced gun builder, but someone with a woodworking background should be able to go from a plank.  Once you've completed a build you will have a very good understanding of what is involved and have that experience under your belt plus, of course, a shoot'n iron you can be proud to own. Win/win... 

dave

[bama]

Hi Gary and welcome to the forum.

There are a lot of choices out there for a first time builder and a ton of info about how to go about building a rifle. I started out building CVA kits. I don't know if there are any of these around these days but 40 years ago they were easy to come by. You might try ebay to see if there are some available. These kits were inexpensive and would produce a serviceable rifle. After I put a couple of those together I drove to Dixie Gun Works and bought the parts to build a PA styled rifle. With these parts I managed to build my first long rifle. A few years later I bought my first blank and built another PA styled rifle. None of these rifles were all that great but it gave me the opportunity to build a rifle and not break the bank.

Start off slow and see if you think rifle building is something you want to invest time into. I started when I was 20 and I am now 64. I love building rifles more today than I did when I started, you may also. You won't know until you try.

[Cory Joe Stewart]

I agree with the post above.  We want to know more about what your specific interests are.  For my money I love the Hershel House DVD set from American Pioneer Video.  Also, do a search on here for the Mike Brooks tutorial.  I turn to it more than anything. 

Study not just building, but look at as many examples as you can see.  Start slow, put together the tools you need and parts.  For my first build I ordered the butt plate and had it a month before anything else. 

Welcome and look forward to seeing what you come up with.

Coryjoe

[Gary Rad]

Thanks for all the input. I would like to build a 1780 Lancaster with a wood patch box, in a .54 cal for deer and elk. I have done a lot of wood working. I don't know how much of a carver I am. What is a basic list of hand tools I will need. I do have some chisels but don't know what shapes and sizes.
Thanks, Gary

[toddsndrsn]

I'm working on my first rifle from a pre-carved kit.  I bought it from a local shop in my hometown of York Pa.   When I do it again, it will be from a blank with the barrel channel inlet and the ram rod hole drilled, very possibly from the same shop.  I feel a lot of my challenges have been directly related to the gun being a pre-carved kit.  This forum has been very helpful and I've received a lot of great advice.  There's a lot of information available to you here with the search function.  This hobby is addictive!

[Ky-Flinter]

Hi Gary,

Welcome to ALR.  I think it is only fair to warn you now, this hobby is addictive!  You've received some good advice thus far.

Here’s a link for recommended books…. http://www.americanlongrifles.org/Books_frame.htm

And tools….. http://www.americanlongrifles.org/WorkShop_frame.htm then click on “Tool List”.

The Search feature is handy if you want info on a specific topic.

Good luck with your build.  Ask questions when you get stuck.  Have fun.

[hudson]

Built my first full stock not long ago, interesting. Normally stick to a later period. Obtained a left hand southern mountain rifle pre carved stock and parts from Pecatonica River. Plenty of wood on this blank, some inletting required. Working drawings obtained from the Log Cabin Shop, these taken from originals I believe. Several options of different rifles plan’s in the package. Bean rifle was the final choice. Enough information with these drawing to work from a plank if you wish. Lots to learn for a first time builder and price was quite reasonable as I recall.

[A.Merrill]

    Welcome!   Gary where are you from?  You my find a blackpowder gunsmith in your area willing to help you.  That would be the best way to learn.  He can give you helpful tips or he may even let you work in his shop. I built of first rifle in 1974,  I had 1 chisel,  a 1/4 inch from ace hardware,  a few files,  a hand drill, 2 crescent wrenches,  a hammer and a rubber hammer. No inletting black and no vice. Where there's a will there's a way. Take your time,  think things out.  You have experience in woodworking you have half of it beat.  Good luck.    Al

[Tim Crosby]

 Good advice all around. Take a look at this and you will get an idea of what building from a blank will get you.

  http://americanlongrifles.org/forum/index.php?topic=31173.0

  Tim C.

PS: Thank Mike. TC

[PPatch]

Thanks for all the input. I would like to build a 1780 Lancaster with a wood patch box, in a .54 cal for deer and elk. I have done a lot of wood working. I don't know how much of a carver I am. What is a basic list of hand tools I will need. I do have some chisels but don't know what shapes and sizes.
Thanks, Gary

Sounds like a worthy project Gary. Study everything you can on those Golden Age Lancaster rifles, and if at all possible look at and handle originals (attend fairs and shows, museums). Low relief carving can be learned, self taught. Note that the height of most carving is much lower than it appears in photographs, on Lancasters it is in the neighborhood of a 32nd and not more than a little less than a 1/16th above the background. It takes a steady hand and very sharp carving tools to pull it off. You can practice on scrap, you will need to be able to pencil in the design on the stock so practise drawing the designs - really get into it. The early design styles are Baroque, later stuff is Rococo based.  

It is always difficult to flat out say "You gotta have this tool or that tool." because everyone has their own approach and each eventually have their favorite tools which obtain results for them (lots of ways to skin the cat). One persons method might be less than ideal for someone else. All one can do is list, suggest, some of the tools that work for you. Toward that end I say a decent drill press and a band saw (for general trimming and cutting out blanks) are good to have, a hand drill, corded or not. I have a metal cutoff saw too. I will use a dremel tool as I feel the need (rarely). Most everything else is hand work; bedding barrels, inletting locks, buttplates, trigger plates and guards, nose caps and sideplates. You will eventually want some soldering gear but it shouldn't be needed for a rifle kit. You will want a low temp (250 degree) and a high temp (450 degree) silver solder.

A complete set of flat or bench chisels - 1" to 1/16th". Mine are inexpensive chinese made affairs that will hold an edge (amazingly so).

Mallet(s) - you'll probably end up with several in different weights. You can make them.
Sharpening equipment - On YouTube find "Paul Sellers" for some videos on sharpening. and chiseling mortises.

Gouges - this one is tough, you will want full sized chisels and gouges, no palm tools - the reason being it is difficult to control a "push tool," using a mallet behind a full size tool is far better. Tough to advise, like I said, but I find a 1/4 and 1/2" wide #3 sweep very useful for inletting and removing background. I find some of the smaller width #7's useful. You will want a "V" tool, a veiner, they come in 60 and 45 degree angles, I have both in small sizes - not larger than a 16th wide.

Rasps and files - buy the best you can afford, nothing at the Big Box store is worth owning. Gobet files are tops. If you keep building you'll end up with a lot of them. For draw filing a barrel sharp 12 and 8 inch Mill Bastard files are good.

Be sure and check out the ALR Tutorial Section, lots of info on technique and tools;

http://americanlongrifles.org/forum/index.php?topic=27762.0 (Rasp info).

http://americanlongrifles.org/forum/index.php?topic=29820.0 (stabbing technique for inlets and relief carving).

http://americanlongrifles.org/forum/index.php?topic=23123.0 plus http://americanlongrifles.org/forum/index.php?topic=12.0 (Low Relief Carving).

http://americanlongrifles.org/forum/index.php?topic=32152.0 (Double Set Triggers).

http://americanlongrifles.org/forum/index.php?topic=23601.0 (lock inletting, piece by piece).

There is a full metalworking section also...

There is no need to purchase carving "sets" as you'll only receive one or at best two useful ones in a set, generally they contain tools that don't sell. Along that line avoid the Flexcut carving tools too, not made to last. It is best to buy individual carving tools as needed or anticipated, and according to your style. You will soon have your own "set" tailored to your needs. The thing about gouges is the darn near endless variety to choose among and their expense. I mailorder most of mine from a NY outfit Tools for Working Wood, and like their Ashley Iiles brand chisels and gouges. Of course there are other quite good brands. Here is a chart that shows the various sweeps for gouges



Hope that helps, do go through the tutorial section with a fine toothed comb... A lot to learn there.

dave

 

[Tim Crosby]

 Neat chart Dave, I don't think I have ever seen one like that.

   Tim C.

[SingleMalt]

Speaking of tools, don't forget eBay.  Swiss made chisels and gouges can be had at a good price, but as always, stick to a name brand, like Pfeil.  I've picked up Victorian-era carving tools that are wonderful!  I think I paid under $50 for a set of 8.