Attaching under ribs

[Roger B]

I have some guns with the rib soldered on, and others that are screwed on.  Both seem to shoot accurately, but I really sweat (no pun intended) drilling holes in a barrel with a drill press, though I have yet to ruin a barrel.  Which method do you guys use?  If you screw them down, what is the method you use for determining barrel hole depth?
Roger B.

[Bob Roller]

I have some guns with the rib soldered on, and others that are screwed on.  Both seem to shoot accurately, but I really sweat (no pun intended) drilling holes in a barrel with a drill press, though I have yet to ruin a barrel.  Which method do you guys use?  If you screw them down, what is the method you use for determining barrel hole depth?
Roger B.

I use a milling machine.First,cut the rib to the length needed and drill  small locator holes in it. I use
a #44 drill,a new one.Place the rib on the barrel where you want it to be and clamp it in place.Using the
#44 drill,mark the barrel using the holes in the rib as a guide.IF you have a drill press with a vise bolted
to the table,make sure the barrel is level. If you have a one inch 50 caliber barrel there is about 1/4"of
barrel wall.Set the point of the drill on the barrel  and the  stop on drill press at 3/16 of an inch and drill the holes to that depth.Make sure
the drill bit is TIGHT in the chuck before doing this.I also make and use 4x48 fillister head screws,a #33
drill bit and break the edge of the holes the depth of ONE thread. I use a modified plug tap and finish
with a bottoming tap.
There are other ways but I think in terms of a well equipped shop. Any way you do it is time consuming'

Bob Roller

[WKevinD]

The best I've seen and used  http://americanlongrifles.org/forum/index.php?topic=29600.0
Time spent on layout will be well worth it!

[Pete G.]

I really really don't like the idea of tapping a fine thread blind hole into relatively soft barrel steel.
I much prefer to use the rivet method, although that also involves drilling a hole in the barrel, but it doesn't require the same amount of exactitude as a screw and it is historically correct.

[Bob Roller]

I really really don't like the idea of tapping a fine thread blind hole into relatively soft barrel steel.
I much prefer to use the rivet method, although that also involves drilling a hole in the barrel, but it doesn't require the same amount of exactitude as a screw and it is historically correct.

The barrels that I drilled and tapped were GM,probably 1137 not leaded.
Three so far.

Bob Roller

[FALout]

I used the method from the link that burnt suggested, that is riveting it on.  I've tapped blind holes but it's real easy to break a tap.  The rivet method is easy and have yet to have a rib come loose.

[jerrywh]

 When I use staples use a mill drill and a 1/8" end mill 2 flute to do the holes. I have a dial micrometer on the down feed. I don't take chances on drilling holes in barrels.
  For the last few years I solder all ribs on.  I know this will cause a outrage but just to let you know they are now attaching ribs on shotgun barrels with loctite.
 The modern custom gun makers guys are also attaching front sight ramps with it.
 I think it is loctite 380. I never tried it on a rib myself. I use paste solder that flows at 430°F

[Roger B]

Thanks guys.  I had forgotten Taylor's riveting thread.  I think I'll take a shot at it!  If that doesn't work for me there's always Loctite or JB 
Roger B.

[Cory Joe Stewart]

I used a method that seems to work, but may be considered cheating. 

First off I was using a hollow rib.  I took a piece of brass small enough to be hidden by the rib, but big enough to get a hole in.  I drilled and thread a 8 32 hole.  I then soldered the brass pieces to the barrel.  Layed the rib over that, then ran 8 32 brass bolts into the holes and peened them down. 

Worked like a top, and not holes in the barrel.

Coryjoe

[Scota4570]

Solder, nothing else, thimbles too. 

[P.W.Berkuta]

This is how I have done all but one rib/thimble to barrel attachment. I file two flats in the rib where I want the thimbles then file a small flat into the thimble bottom. I place the thimbles onto the rib and align them to the rib using a steel rod longer than the rib. I then remove the steel rod and flux the thimble/rib interface with the proper silver braze flux. Then I braze the two together with a high temp silver braze (1150 - 1250 degree). Once cooled I clean every thing up. The assembly is then attached to the barrel with Stay-Brite using Stay-Clean as the flux. NOTE: I tin both barrel & rib assembly before they are joined. The heat source has been a hand held hardware store propane torch FOR THE SOFT SOLDERING PORTION ONLY a high heat source is needed for the silver braze.
 

[jerrywh]

I do the same as above except I do not silver braze the thimbles on the rib first anymore. I assemble the whole thing with the rod in the thimbles and soft solder the whole thing at one time with swif 95.  You probably can't get swiff 95 anymore but there are equivalent past solders out there that flow at about 450°F  I hold the rod and all to the barrel with radiator hose clamps. For the rod I use an aluminum rod because it is a good conductor and the solder will not stick to it , just in case.

[Scota4570]

Jerry and I do it almost the same. Instead of hose clamps I use hay wire and nails for wedges. 

[Bob Roller]

I used a method that seems to work, but may be considered cheating. 

First off I was using a hollow rib.  I took a piece of brass small enough to be hidden by the rib, but big enough to get a hole in.  I drilled and thread a 8 32 hole.  I then soldered the brass pieces to the barrel.  Layed the rib over that, then ran 8 32 brass bolts into the holes and peened them down. 

Worked like a top, and not holes in the barrel.

Coryjoe

May also be considered as a good and smart idea IMHO.

Bob Roller

[Boompa]

 I've used Taylor's riveting method with good success. I've also drilled/tapped using 6/40 screws and it worked well too but is a bit more work.  For the RR thimble I've used silver solder and it works okay. On the last gun I used common soldering paste seems to hold well and is much easier.

[PPatch]

Yes JB - I have just completed a pipe to rib and rib to barrel install using Taylor's method

http://americanlongrifles.org/forum/index.php?topic=37886.50 (page 4)

Like Taylor I made the rivets out of nails, hand filed the band around the bottoms



I drilled the rivet holes in the barrel on my drill press, making sure of the depth and having the barrel level in a vice (I drilled the rib at the same time, the rib wired to the barrel). Using a punch I installed the rivets



The fit was all I could hope for



Taylor's method made for a strong bond and a neat looking job. It does require paying attention all along the way. At this point I don't have any pix of the finished job.

dave



 

[P.W.Berkuta]

Nice clean job PPatch -- I may have to visit this method on my next rib installation. Did you countersink or counterbore the peened side of the rib so that the rivet head was flush when done? I guess I have to go back to Taylor's post and re-read it - thanks for the pictures - helps a lot.

[gumboman]

PPatch, what company was the source for the hollow rib? like to buy a couple of them.

[Scota4570]

(I drilled the rib at the same time, the rib wired to the barrel)

I use double sided scotch tape to hold it while I drill both at the same time.  I snug up the joint with wooden clamps.  If you de-grease both surfaces it will hold very tight.  Slip a knife in the joint to break the seal.  Be careful not to bend the rib.  Heating will soften the tape glue too.  The tape is a very good way to do trial fits to see how it looks too. 

[kutter]

Soft solder the rib onto the bbl including the thimbles at the same time. Solid rib or hollow,,doesn't matter.
Tin everything first and then re=flux & clamp things together. Then just enough heat to make the solder flow.

I use a basket full of small C clamps for the job as I use the same technique in re-ribbing SxS cartridge guns.
Most old text says to use wire twisted to secure the pieces together but just never had good luck that way. Seems to loosen when heated up but others have used it with great success.
Whatever works for you.

A full length piece of 1/8" square stock I use on the shotgun bottom ribs to clamp down on comes in handy on the M/L rib jobs in keeping the thimbles in place and lined up too.

A close fit of the parts and  clean surfaces are the secret if there is any to a strong soft solder job. Soft solder is not a strong gap filler material.,,and don't over heat the flux & solder;

[bgf]

I did it almost exactly like PWB, but the barrel was so heavy I had to preheat on gas grill to help torch.  Coryjoes method sound really good.  For a solid rib, you might be able to dovetail the threaded portion and /or inlet it into the rib a bit as well.

As far as drilling holes, my last couple have been 11/8" for light chunk guns.  Lot of margin .

[goodtime7]

I don't have a lot of experience soldering large objects like ribs etc.   Curious about the most effective technique(s) on tinning the parts to be joined.  Thanks.   

[Herb]

Gumboman, Muzzleloader Builders Supply has hollow ribs.  See their online catalog, "Rib Hollow, 13/16 to 1 1/8", 24" long, $30.  These are the style Hawken used."

[PPatch]

Gumboman and PW Burkuta;

The source for the hollow rib was Muzzleloader Builders Supply (as Herb says above).

Thanks PW - yes I counter sunk the holes in the rib so the rivets would have a grip when the heads are flush filed. I'm still doing that, filing the rivets flush, I just do it when I feel I have a bit of time to devote to it.



That rib is on there, and it isn't coming off without some major event or effort. Riveting is a good way to go in my opinion. I will say that I thought it wouldn't be all that hard to solder the rib on if you tinned the rib lip and prep'd your barrel well.

For the RR pipes I used Stay Brite 8% silver solder (3/32nd dia. 430 degree), tinned both pipe and rib before joining, and I snuck up on the heat gentle like. When I saw the metal just begin to darken to go straw color I removed the heat and waited for the solder to melt.

The pix below shows my soldering setup. The brass shim material you see surrounding the rod going through the pipe is for centering the rod in the pipe, I'll use that when I drill the RR hole too. It was a mistake to leave so much of the shim material on either end of the pipe, tis better to have it all inside the pipe - I had a bit of solder attach to the material and attach to the rib, was a job getting if off. In the pix the blue stuff is wet paper shop towel acting as a heat sink on the other pipe and the tip of the rib where I filled in the end with solder. If I do it again I'll leave that end hollow until after the pipes are on. By the way, the "rod" is actually the RR drill.



All of my technique comes directly from Taylor Sapergia - Thank you Taylor!

dave

[P.W.Berkuta]

I'll say it again PPatch -- nice job --  . I have some barrel scraps to practice on before I do the real barrel. I have a mill but you'r never 100% certian when "Murphy" may show his ugly head . Way in the past I did rivit on my first rib and it was not fully seated to the barrel I had a heck of a time fixing it. I guess that's where PRATICE comes in!