scaled rifle drawings

[smallpatch]

I know this has been discussed before, but I did a search and could come up with Nothing.
I've got a nice one of the H Rupp in RCA #1, but that's about it.

I'm looking to start a new "scratch" project, and would like to know of any full sized rifle drawings that could be available.

I've checked TOW, and they have a very limited supply, and most I wouldn't be interested in.

Do any of the "Sages" of the board have any input on this one??

[lew wetzel]

dane,i got all the dimensions for the rupp rifle i am building from taylor.....so i took the pic from rca and went and had it blown up to size.....buttplate through the lock area....i can send you a copy if you like...

[t.caster]

smallpatch, not sure, but are you looking for something besides a RUPP?
What do you have in mind?

[D. Taylor Sapergia]

Included with the book, "Recreating the American Longrifle" by Shumway, Buchele and Alexander, is a nice profile drawing of what I think might be a Frederick Sell.

[Tony Clark]

Included with the book, "Recreating the American Longrifle" by Shumway, Buchele and Alexander, is a nice profile drawing of what I think might be a Frederick Sell.

If I remember correctly that  plan drawing shows mostly characteristics of George Eisters work. I believe that is just Bucheles idea of a fine longrifle, not a particular antique gun.

What kind of scaled rifle drawings are you looking for? This is what I do (and what I recommend you do) when I want a full scale drawing of a particular style of gun, or specific gun.

1) Find someone with a gun that I would like a drawing of.
2) Ask very nicely if it would be possible to make a full scale drawing of it.
3) Make drawing of it.

Where are there people who might let you make a drawing of there gun? Here on this board is a good place to start looking. Even if your looking for a specific  very fine gun it is relatively easy to track down its whereabouts, and I have found that collectors are very cooperative when builders are interested in studying guns that they may have.

I always carry a soft lead pencil &  a roll of butcher paper with me if I think I might see some originals that I might want a drawing of. Roll out butcher paper, set gun on paper, take pencil and trace the entire profile of gun, mark out on paper details like length of nosecap, sight position, pipe positions, trigger & guard placement, lock placement, lock moldings, length of tang, buttplate position, cheekpiece, carving placement any and all details. Take some small pieces of paper and take some rubbings of carving and engraving. Make whatever notations needed right on drawing. Take a few pictures. Only takes a few minutes to do all this. I keep all this info in large three ring binders and never pass up a chance to obtain more scale drawings of quality guns. What kind of gun do you need a drawing of I might have one. Regards, TC

[G-Man]

Well, I'm no sage, but Log Cabin shop used to carry some nice ones and probably still has some.  As I recall there were some nice ones by Houston Harrison - the famous Dickert with the side opening box, the Isaac Berlin (?) rifle that is the first gun in RCA Vol. II, a Jaeger, and Davy Crockett's York Co. rifle.   They also used to carry a nice line drawing of an early style wide butted Hershel House rifle and Ron Borron's southern mountain rifle drawings.

MBS has these as well:

http://muzzleloaderbuilderssupply.com/cgi-bin/mbscart/agora.cgi?cart_id=6170892.32491*kP6FC7&product=Books-Videos-Drawings



Ron may still sell his drawings if you can't get them through the suppliers.

Good luck

Guy

[George F.]

That Buchele Drawing in "Recreating the American Longrifle" is a Fredric Sell Rifle. It is displayed on pg 413 in The Golden Age book. I believe it is his finest.   ...Geo.

[Tony Clark]

That Buchele Drawing in "Recreating the American Longrifle" is a Fredric Sell Rifle. It is displayed on pg 413 in The Golden Age book. I believe it is his finest.   ...Geo.

I know what Sell rifle your talking about, I think it's his finest also. But the drawing in Bucheles book is just based on "details and dimensions from golden age rifles" as Buchele describes it on the actual drawing. I have that drawing hanging above one of my workbenches and always thought about how he must have been basing some of the details from Eisters work. The carving, for example, that he shows on the drawing is not at all similiar to the Sell rifle. No cheek inlay, no carving forward of the lock panels, toe plate different, triggerguard & trigger is different, no inlay on comb, lots of differences from that Sell rifle. The sideplate is undeniably taken from the Sell rifle, and the patchbox is similiar, but not much else, and I really wonder if the actual dimensions are from that particular Sell Gun. Either way it is just Bucheles interpretation of of nice golden age longrifle, not a drawing of a particular gun. Regards, TC

[smallpatch]

OK,

I've got a good start.

Found a Northhampton @ Log Cabin, and an Early Virginia, and Pre-Rev drawing @ MBS.

I'll order these and keep looking.

[oldiemkr]

Tip Curtis has a number of prints displayed in his booth at Friendship. I assumed they were on display for sale.

Might be worth a call.

[G-Man]

Smallpatch - if I recall correctly, the "pre-Revolutionary" drawing that MBS sells is the first rifle in Volume II of RCA (the one that Shumway describes as having been damaged in a fire, and also had the lock in two stages of conversion/ reconversion in the RCA photos) which is attributed (or at least was by some, not sure now) to Isaac Berlin.  So between the full scale drawing and the RCA photos you would have a pretty good guide to work from.  It is a beautiful piece and I am pretty certain Reaves Goehring has appropriate hardware available for it.

If I am not mistaken, the "Early Virginia" is Ron Borron's drawing of the Joseph Bogle rifle - that gun is actually now believed to have been made in Blount County Tennessee, pre-1811.  Photos of it are on Mel Hankla's American Historic Services website.  Ron did two versions of the drawing - one that was pretty much as the original, and a second version in which he took out a little of the drop and showed it with an L&R Durs Egg lock so that it would be more of a pattern for contemporary builders.

Good luck

Guy

[smallpatch]

Guy,

Thanks, you helped me along on two fronts.

#1  I think the Berlin would be an awesome project.  Kind of where I want to lean.  I think I'm going to order that one for sure.

#2  You kept me from ordering one that I'm just not interested in.  As far as Virginia's,  I tend more toward the straight stocked, early.  More like what Mark Silver portrays in the Chamber's kit.

Anyway.... again, Thanks.

[G-Man]

Glad to help.  My tastes sort of lean the opposite - those southern guns from about 1790-1820 are my favorites, but I do enjoy the early stuff too.

Reave's hardware for the Berlin piece is really nice - hopefully he still has it -nice thumbnail finial type of mounts, sort of othe smaller-proportioned end the scale as far as early rifle mounts go, but they look really cool when paired with a big round faced lock like that original.

The Dickert drawing is really nice too if MBS still has it - I had the opportunity to view that gun up close a few times when Jim Johnston had it on display at Golden Age Arms and it is a superb piece.  Also one of the surviving guns we know of that was really "there" on the Ohio frontier - it was reportedly used by a rifleman from western PA on Crawford's ill-fated Sandusky campaign in 1782.  The gun is shown in detail in RCA Volume 1 and "Accoutrements" Volume 1.

Guy

[Birddog6]

Tip Curtis has a number of prints displayed in his booth at Friendship. I assumed they were on display for sale.

Might be worth a call.

Unless Tip just started handling drawings, he doesn't carry them. He has always told me to just use the RCA book & just make it look like them in the book.  ha ha !  He put the ones up in the new building at Friendship when he built it a few years ago.

Allot  of the drawings I have seen for sale were not drawing of actual rifles, they were drawing that were someones "Interperetation" of what that rifle should look like.

You can copy a photo of a rifle on a transparancy & then project it on a flat wall & by using one one measurement, adjust the projector to that dimension & get fairly close to the correct size.  Then put some drafting paper or butcher paper up on the wall & draw the rifle on the paper.  If you use paper with a scale you can then get the components sized a little easier. 
One problem that occurs at times is the photo needs to be dead ahead for the measurements to be accurate, as angled photos will be misleading.