Earliest Russian muzzleloader with socket bayonet

[bones92]

A friend asked this on another forum, and I suppose one of you fine ladies and gentlemen may be able to point him in the right direction:

I'm looking for some information regarding the earliest Imperial Russian musket that was issued with a socket bayonet??? Online I'm having trouble finding info anything earlier than the M1908? Obviously, it wasn't the first Russian issue muzzle-loading flintlock musket!

 My question is, what model was the first musket that was issued to Russian troops with a socket bayonet???

[Hungry Horse]

Bones;

 Russian muskets, and later, military rifles, were pretty much straight up French copies. There may have been small detail differences, but the Russians czars were intermarried with the French court, and got a lot af technology from the French armories.

  Hungry Horse

[JV Puleo]

Socket bayonets were introduced in Russia during the Great Northern War and were certainly in use at Poltava in 1709. This coincides with the introduction of the flintlock as a regular infantry arm in the Russian army in the first decade of the 18th century. Later Russian arms generally followed French patterns but this isn't until after the Napoleonic wars. Prior to that the influences were largely German or possibly Swedish. Early Russian flintlocks have flat lock surfaces, often with a dog catch, long after it went out of use in western Europe.

And... the Russian court spoke French but there was relatively little intermarriage between the Russian Imperial family and the French nobility. They were much closer to the minor German principalities. In fact, Russia was most often allied with the enemies of France which is perfectly natural as the last thing Russia wanted was a strong military presence on their western border. When French patterns were adopted it was because almost all of Europe had also adopted them – as well as the United States.

[bones92]

Thanks, Joe.  I assume there were various models produced, perhaps at Tula or Sestroretsk, in the 1700s, correct?

[Pennsylvania Dutchman]

Page 214 of the 2002-03 Rifle Shoppe catalog that I have, has a photo of a Russian model 1769 musket. It does have a dogcatch on the flat faced beveled edge lock. There is also a close up photo of the lock. It is Tula marked and .69 cal 40 1/2" barrel. It does state in the description that there were earlier models that were basically the same as the 1769 except for the barrel length. It may be what you are looking for.
Mark

[Hungry Horse]

Research done at Fort Ross, a Russian American company Fort  on the California coast that started a little after 1800 show guns of French pattern, marked By Russian armories. The fort was in existence from Round 1800 til 1840.

  Hungry Horse

[JV Puleo]

"The bullet is a fool, the bayonet is your friend"
General Suvorov in the Suzdal Regulations, 1765

Tula was the major arms making center... in fact Tula is where it's located. It's real name is "The Armory of Peter the Great" and right up to 1917 the commanding officer wore epaulets with the cypher of Peter I on them rather than the current Emperor. I'm not certain when the Sestroretsk Armory was founded but I'm reasonably certain it wasn't anywhere near the beginning of the 18th century and may have been as late as the 19th century. As to the patterns, the only reference works I have are in Russian (which I can't read) but I'll take a look and see if I can puzzle something out. Also, the illustrations are terrible drawings, so they don't give us much, if any, detail.

I believe the flintlock military musket was introduced in Russia by Peter I and that the initial supplies of them were purchased in the Netherlands by Peter during the Great Embassy. This would have just about the time the socket bayonet appeared on the scene, the very end of the 17th century but, as we all know, Peter was vitally interested in the latest and best military technology and it's inconceivable he wouldn't have known about it or wanted it. There was hardly a shred of the traditional in Peter and none at all when it came to building a modern military.

Russian flintlocks of all types are very rarely seen. I had one, probably a Marine musket, made at Tula in 1841 that was in otherwise new condition – so much so that it almost looked like a reproduction. It was brass mounted and, aside from the markings, looked like a French musket. I suspect it was a "bring back" from the Crimean War. I was once offered a Russian Brunswick Rifle that was clearly a Crimean War souvenir because it had a long inscription engraved on the patch box saying how it had been captured in the Baltic by the British naval expedition. A few guns associated with the Russian American Company have also surfaced... a bit horse pistol with the cypher of Alexander I turned up in a California junk shop a few years ago and collector Mike Carrick once showed me a musket (similar to the one I had) covered with Pacific Northwest Indian decorations.

Can you tell Russian military history is one of my hobbies?

[Elnathan]

http://jamesdjulia.com/item/2446-358/

Russian Musket c.1720.

Think this one was probably used with a plug bayonet, though, as I don't see how you could possibly get a socket to stay on that cannon muzzle. Note that it has a rear sight!

Neat old monster.