Author Topic: damaged bore  (Read 5774 times)

Black Jaque Janaviac

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damaged bore
« on: May 05, 2009, 10:04:57 PM »
I've got a flintlock with a Colerain barrel and I'm thinking I might have damaged the bore through neglegent cleaning practices or gas blow-by.

First I've noticed a change in the load that it likes.  I used to shoot just about anything and it would be happy.  Now I need at least 110 grains of powder (Swiss 2F is all I've ever used in this gun).

Next, when cleaning I notice a spot right about where the ball would be seated when loaded over 100 grains (my usual hunting load).  I can't tell if this spot is a rough spot due to rust, or a slightly loose spot due to erosion.

Are there any clever ways to fix this?

Is it fairly easy to buy a new barrel and just put the pin lugs in the same spot and drop it in?   (I didn't build it myself, it is a TVM in-the-white).


mike e

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Re: damaged bore
« Reply #1 on: May 05, 2009, 10:14:08 PM »
I'd take the breech plug out and see what it looks like inside. If its not pitted too bad you could polish it with 0000 steel wool or a scotch brite pad. Use lots of oil.

Offline Dphariss

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Re: damaged bore
« Reply #2 on: May 05, 2009, 11:40:40 PM »
I've got a flintlock with a Colerain barrel and I'm thinking I might have damaged the bore through neglegent cleaning practices or gas blow-by.

First I've noticed a change in the load that it likes.  I used to shoot just about anything and it would be happy.  Now I need at least 110 grains of powder (Swiss 2F is all I've ever used in this gun).

Next, when cleaning I notice a spot right about where the ball would be seated when loaded over 100 grains (my usual hunting load).  I can't tell if this spot is a rough spot due to rust, or a slightly loose spot due to erosion.

Are there any clever ways to fix this?

Is it fairly easy to buy a new barrel and just put the pin lugs in the same spot and drop it in?   (I didn't build it myself, it is a TVM in-the-white).



What patch lube?
Water based lubes used when the gun is to be loaded for awhile will often produce a ring where the wet patch sets in the barre.
Dan
He who dares not offend cannot be honest. Thomas Paine

Daryl

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Re: damaged bore
« Reply #3 on: May 06, 2009, 04:49:30 PM »
  Now I need at least 110 grains of powder (Swiss 2F is all I've ever used in this gun).


Sounds like a descent load to me. ;D

Offline Roger Fisher

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Re: damaged bore
« Reply #4 on: May 06, 2009, 05:16:03 PM »
I've got a flintlock with a Colerain barrel and I'm thinking I might have damaged the bore through neglegent cleaning practices or gas blow-by.

First I've noticed a change in the load that it likes.  I used to shoot just about anything and it would be happy.  Now I need at least 110 grains of powder (Swiss 2F is all I've ever used in this gun).

Next, when cleaning I notice a spot right about where the ball would be seated when loaded over 100 grains (my usual hunting load).  I can't tell if this spot is a rough spot due to rust, or a slightly loose spot due to erosion.

Are there any clever ways to fix this?

Is it fairly easy to buy a new barrel and just put the pin lugs in the same spot and drop it in?   (I didn't build it myself, it is a TVM in-the-white).



What patch lube?
Water based lubes used when the gun is to be loaded for awhile will often produce a ring where the wet patch sets in the barre.
Dan
Yes, in particular when they are loaded after shooting and no cleaning and left sit for weeks months!!  Suggest wraping the scotch brite or 4/0 wool with a tight fit in the bore and work $#*! out of that area (just that area) before anything else. 
Then check with a very tight patch and see if she smooths out.  If she does then you can go merryly on down the road.  !  Let us know how she goes... :)

Black Jaque Janaviac

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Re: damaged bore
« Reply #5 on: May 06, 2009, 05:40:21 PM »
Patch lube has always been 100% grease based when hunting.  I've used the water-based or spit lubes just when plinking at the range.

I've never left a load in for more than the week of deer season - although I HAVE gone several weeks without cleaning.  Which I regret immensely now.

I know that if you use a good quality BP immediate cleaning isn't imperative, but when life gets busy weeks, even months slip by.  It used to be that my muzzle loaders would never go a month without a workout so I slipped into bad habits.  Then my wife blessed me with twins and the muzzle loader sat in the hooks for a long time.


Black Jaque Janaviac

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Re: damaged bore
« Reply #6 on: May 06, 2009, 05:49:30 PM »
Quote
Sounds like a descent load to me.


Well, with all the bickerin' between the velocity and bullet mass and which is more important - I've decided to go with BOTH.   8)

225 grains of lead leaving the bore at 1900+ fps!


Daryl

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Re: damaged bore
« Reply #7 on: May 06, 2009, 06:14:45 PM »
Years ago, guys around here used 110gr. 2F in a .50 and 120gr. 2F in a .54 for hunting - deer, elk, moose & bear. some used 120 in their .50's while others used up to 140 in their .54's and thought nothing of it - ie: normal hunting loads.  Today, I see a trend towards what I consider squib loads for hunting - 65gr. in a .54 because even less in a handgun will kill a deer - "nothing more is needed" is the usual reason.  Black Jaque - I don't see a problem with your load.  With a good, accurate combination, it will be a hard hitting, flat shooting load.

Are we getting softer in or old age and look for reasons to drop what were normal charges?  It even sees a rarity today to see someone using 100gr, yet that is not a heavy load for a .50. We used 110gr. 2F with 370 gr. Maxiballs in TC's in the early 70's - normal load. Yes, I know it's a lousy hunting bullet- didn't know that then.

Lets not forget the large game has large bones that stop squib loads.  A .54 & descent load might have a chance after glancing on a leg bone, but a squib .50 doesn't.
oops  - preaching again  ;)

Black Jaque Janaviac

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Re: damaged bore
« Reply #8 on: May 06, 2009, 06:45:41 PM »
Rifle power and recoil used to be judged based on a .30-06.  The common man was expected to be able to handle it.

Today, the standard for power and recoil is the .223.

You know; we are blown away when we try to imagine knights swinging heavy broadswords as easily as if they were flyswatters, or Welsh bowman shooting longbow with 200 lb draw weights, or mountain men taking on grizzlies with muzzle loaders. 

In 100 years people will wonder what kind of gorillas we were to be able to carry and shoot 8-lb .30-06s!!!!!!

doug

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Re: damaged bore
« Reply #9 on: May 06, 2009, 06:57:58 PM »
Rifle power and recoil used to be judged based on a .30-06.  The common man was expected to be able to handle it.

      I don't see it as being a wuss to shoot relatively light loads; why waste powder if a lighter load does the job.  I have shot calibers from 32 to 95 in muzzle loaders and none of them up to around .80 kick objectionably but I still prefer around 70 or 80 grains in a 50 or 54 for a hunting load and 55 gr in a 50 for target shooting.
     I am not nearly as good a shot as Taylor or Daryl but that has far more to do with lack of practice and mediocre eyesight than the amount of powder than I shoot.

cheers Doug

Daryl

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Re: damaged bore
« Reply #10 on: May 07, 2009, 03:37:57 AM »
Point taken, Doug & I hear you.  Taylor shoots small charges too - Something like 80gr. 2f in the .50 Virginia for targets & only 85gr. in the .60 Jaeger.  The trouble with light charges comes when shooting farther than 25 yards.  He's shot both guns enough to know how to hold the sights for different ranges, but holding the entire front sight over the rear sight for a mere 80 yard shot  - well, I have trouble with that. I like as normal a sight picture as possible and having the same sight picture for ranges out to 100yards makes sense to me.  I've no problem with others using small charges if that's what they want.  I am more concerned with getting the best load the rifle will shoot - kinda anal that way - just me.
« Last Edit: May 07, 2009, 03:38:25 AM by Daryl »

Offline Dphariss

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Re: damaged bore
« Reply #11 on: May 07, 2009, 07:40:22 AM »
I've got a flintlock with a Colerain barrel and I'm thinking I might have damaged the bore through neglegent cleaning practices or gas blow-by.

First I've noticed a change in the load that it likes.  I used to shoot just about anything and it would be happy.  Now I need at least 110 grains of powder (Swiss 2F is all I've ever used in this gun).

Next, when cleaning I notice a spot right about where the ball would be seated when loaded over 100 grains (my usual hunting load).  I can't tell if this spot is a rough spot due to rust, or a slightly loose spot due to erosion.

Are there any clever ways to fix this?

Is it fairly easy to buy a new barrel and just put the pin lugs in the same spot and drop it in?   (I didn't build it myself, it is a TVM in-the-white).



If its pitted it will foul like $#*!. Pits greatly increase the fouling retained in the bore.
The only real fix is to pull the breech cast a lap in it an lap it if its not too bad or have it freshed.
Or replace the barrel.
Dan
He who dares not offend cannot be honest. Thomas Paine

erdillonjr

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Re: damaged bore
« Reply #12 on: May 09, 2009, 07:43:48 PM »
You could try lapping the bore with some garnet lapping compound available through Brownells