English Sporting Rifle Late Flintlock Period

[Denny Ducet]

It is an honor to be able to present to you this particular rifle:

 

[snapper]

Denny

I assume that it is you in the clip and it is your rifle?

If so, very nice.  Love it.    Ever want to sell it send me an email.

Nice patch knife.

Fleener

[Denny Ducet]

Denny

I assume that it is you in the clip and it is your rifle?

If so, very nice.  Love it.    Ever want to sell it send me an email.

Nice patch knife.

Fleener

Not me.  This is a friend and Flintlock mentor.  I don't believe he will ever sell it.  He and this rifle are one.  He made that "trade dag", northern Plains knife.  It is cool - I need to make one sometime.

[Joe S.]

very nice rifle,I do have a question.The rifle looks very petite vs. it's counterparts in the same mold built over here ie. hawken half stocks and alike.Is this a valid observation? Was it the norm for both contemporary and original.My quess would be conditions dictated the need for a more robust rifle over here back in the day.

[T*O*F]

The Alex Henry rifles that I have built have been as little as 7/8" thru the wrist, as measured from original guns.  All English guns are very slim with no extra wood anywhere.

[Denny Ducet]

very nice rifle,I do have a question.The rifle looks very petite vs. it's counterparts in the same mold built over here ie. hawken half stocks and alike.Is this a valid observation? Was it the norm for both contemporary and original.My quess would be conditions dictated the need for a more robust rifle over here back in the day.

From what I understand and have learned from some of those who have been in this a long time as well as the one who built this very rifle - a sign of a good builders is the slender feel and removal of wood.  Often, a sign of a less skilled maker is the leaving of excess wood and a heavier, "club" like stock.  Every rifle built by the man who built this one is a work of art.

[wattlebuster]

Good video. Beautiful rifle. Thanks for taking the time to post it

[D. Taylor Sapergia]

I enjoyed the video and commentary.  He is justifiably proud of his rifle.

[Natureboy]

  That's a really pretty gun.  I especially like the transition from octagonal to round, with the filing of the octagon edges.

[Bob Roller]

I enjoyed the video and commentary.  He is justifiably proud of his rifle.

Elegant rifle in my favorite style. I am wondering about his use of the word "roller".
I have never heard that term used as he described it and wonder if it's one of my
locks made a long time ago.The screw points I can see look like mine as does the
cock screw holding the cock to the tumbler shank.

Bob Roller

[D. Taylor Sapergia]

Bob,  it is my opinion that this lock started out life as either a L & R Durs Egg or a John Clark (Tottenham, Ontario)  Whether you re-built it or not would show on the inside

[Denny Ducet]

Bob,  it is my opinion that this lock started out life as either a L & R Durs Egg or a John Clark (Tottenham, Ontario)  Whether you re-built it or not would show on the inside

It was made by L&R I believe.  He told me once it was a L&R Durs Egg - worked and engraved.

[Bob Roller]

Bob,  it is my opinion that this lock started out life as either a L & R Durs Egg or a John Clark (Tottenham, Ontario)  Whether you re-built it or not would show on the inside

It was made by L&R I believe.  He told me once it was a L&R Durs Egg - worked and engraved.

Carefully unseat that lock and I'll settle the question.

Bob Roller

[Hungry Horse]

I've been in this sport a long time, and have never heard a lock called a roller lock, that wasn't built by our own Bob Roller. I've heard the term roller frizzen used to dicribe a frizzen that either has its own roller, or rolls on one attached to the frizzen spring. I own a Lehigh antique smooth rifle that has a roller on the end of the mainspring, and through all the research, and conversations with knowledgeable collectors, and restorers, nobody ever called it a roller lock. My guess would be that when this lock is removed it will have Bob's mark in it.

  Hungry Horse

[Hungry Horse]

As for cleaning my flintlock, its cold, or luke warm, water only. Hot water makes flash rust. I don't know what all is in Windex, but I know I don't want it in my flintlocks barrel. Think about it,
the fine antiques that have survived for hundreds of years were cleaned with water, as were the military muskets, and rifles of the past were cleaned with water.

  Hungry Horse

[Bob Roller]

I've been in this sport a long time, and have never heard a lock called a roller lock, that wasn't built by our own Bob Roller. I've heard the term roller frizzen used to dicribe a frizzen that either has its own roller, or rolls on one attached to the frizzen spring. I own a Lehigh antique smooth rifle that has a roller on the end of the mainspring, and through all the research, and conversations with knowledgeable collectors, and restorers, nobody ever called it a roller lock. My guess would be that when this lock is removed it will have Bob's mark in it.

  Hungry Horse

HH,
Thank you.If it IS my lock it will have "Roller" in a semi circle and if made after July of 1989 it have USA
in the semi circular name.Anything before then will be dated.

Bob Roller

[D. Taylor Sapergia]

Mr. Ducet:  for the sake of clarification, are you able to convince the owner of this lovely piece to show us the inside of the lock?  I too have never heard of a lock referred to as a 'roller' lock unless it was made by Robert Roller.  I concur that the plate, cock frizzen and spring are Durs Egg L & R products, but Bob rebuilt any number of these with his internals.  Our curiosity requires satisfaction, if the owner will oblige.

[Denny Ducet]

To answer the question about the Windex - the main ingredient is Ammonia - which helps dissolve Black Powder apparently. 

The Lock is indeed a L&R Durs Egg only.  He has removed it and knows the builder very, very well.  This same builder is the one building my rifle currently.  The L&R was re-worked and tuned by the builder and engraved by another local fella named Larry.

[Bob Roller]

To answer the question about the Windex - the main ingredient is Ammonia - which helps dissolve Black Powder apparently. 

The Lock is indeed a L&R Durs Egg only.  He has removed it and knows the builder very, very well.  This same builder is the one building my rifle currently.  The L&R was re-worked and tuned by the builder and engraved by another local fella named Larry.

Ok,that should settle the question about the lock. It's been quite a while
since I made one of these Durs Egg locks and I still have parts for a left handed
one but doubt if it will ever get built because of the cost of the parts and labor
on the mechanism.

Bob Roller

[James Rogers]

Roller.....on the hammer spring ; )

[Hungry Horse]

Yes, this percussion conversion from flint, is English marked. And,converted no doubt by the original maker, since I had to remove the lock from the gun to detect the plugs filling the extra holes for frizzen, and spring. The conversion was maticulasly done, very much in keeping with the rest of the gun. I was shocked when I saw a small wheel on the mainspring. I would love to see what this lock looked like when new. Sadly the gun is unmarked other than by the barrel maker on the bottom of the barrel.

  Hungry Horse

[rich pierce]

What a fine rifle and video. I do have some safety concerns especially about using the rifle as a leaning post, hands and head over the muzzle.

[Bob Roller]

Roller.....on the hammer spring ; )

These roller bearing springs were never common but they must have helped but speaking
from the view of a lock maker I am certain the stirrup or linked mainspring is easier to make.
I have one of these springs Wes Kindig gave me years ago to study but continued the
unlinked sliding mainspring until 1970 when I switched to the linked type.
Willie Cochran did a good job of keeping the old design alive for years.
Also again,I have NEVER heard of any lock being referred to as a "roller"lock as pertaining
to an unusual mainspring system.
 Bob Roller

[James Rogers]

Roller.....on the hammer spring ; )

These roller bearing springs were never common but they must have helped but speaking
from the view of a lock maker I am certain the stirrup or linked mainspring is easier to make.
I have one of these springs Wes Kindig gave me years ago to study but continued the
unlinked sliding mainspring until 1970 when I switched to the linked type.
Willie Cochran did a good job of keeping the old design alive for years.
Also again,I have NEVER heard of any lock being referred to as a "roller"lock as pertaining
to an unusual mainspring system.
 Bob Roller

Bob,
I was just guessing he was referring to the feature of a roller on the hammer (frizzen) as being a "roller lock".  I have heard people use this term in casual conversation.

[T*O*F]

I was just guessing he was referring to the feature of a roller on the hammer (frizzen) as being a "roller lock".  I have heard people use this term in casual conversation.

Likewise, I have heard the same thing.  Not everyone knows lock nomenclature.  Also, in deference to Bob, not everyone in the overall domain of muzzleloading knows what a "Roller lock" is.