trigger inlet question

[eagle24]

Sort of.  How much thickness needs to be left below the ramrod hole to be reasonably sure the stock wont break through if bumped?  Is 1/8" plenty or can you go thinner?

[Dave B]

Eagle24,
Your talking about how deep you can inlet the trigger plate or the thickness of the fore arm at the trigger guard finial? I have found that I have taken the whole fore arm down to about a 1/16th. Typically I would call 1/8" good but hadn't really been carefull about checking all the time. I have had a few that the finial of the front trigger is inlet to expose the ramrod hole. I have a few originals that its the same way.
Good luck
Dave B

[Tim Crosby]

 Isn't the thickness somewhat dictated by the depth of the RR grove and the position of the tang on the rear ramrod thimble? A line drawn straight back from it parallel to the finished top edge of the stock back to the trigger plate area should do it.  No ? Maybe I am missing something.

Tim C.

[eagle24]

I guess I was talking about both actually.  I was thinking about inletting the trigger and how it would define the bottom line of the forearm.  In other words, it occurred to me that if the trigger was inlet to deep I could run into problems with the trigger guard and the thickness beneath the ramrod hole.  Just wondering how deep I could go without running into problems.  I would like to make the stock as thin as I can.  Should I remove some wood and then inlet the trigger?  I think I have about 3/8" beneath the ramrod hole.

[E.vonAschwege]

I work the stock down to rough final dimension before inletting the triggerplate or TG.  I think 1/8" is a good base number to keep in mind for thickness below the RR.  When you go much thinner you run the risk of cracking when you inlet the triggerguard finial or if the wood swells and shrinks (ask me how I know).  Don't worry about the finial breaking into the RR channel.  I've done it before and have seen originals the same way.  Hope this helps some,
-Eric

[G-Man]

Just be careful if you are building a southern mountain rifle with screws on the front and rear finial of the guard (instead of a pin).  You need room for clearance and to be able to locate the front screw so that it is anchored in solid wood, snug.

Some southern mountain rifles (the Bogle gun for example) had guards that were pinned, so it is an option.  But use of two screws seems to be more common,  especially on what we think of as the classic late flint and percussion era mountain rifles.
 
Guy

[T.C.Albert]

Also, rather than setting the trigger plate deeper and deeper till it engages the lock properly, you can bend the sear bar of the lock down a bit to meet the trigger levers, allowing you to leave more forearm wood to proflie as needed....
T.Albert

[Ken G]

Hi Eagle,

I shoot for a 1/16 of an inch of wood just under the ram rod entry final.  No more than an 1/8th toward the trigger guard.  You can check your depth by drilling a hole under where the trigger guard front final will be to check the depth.  By keeping the web of wood between the rr hole and the underside of the stock thin all the way back you will be able to have the lock panels thinner without the fish belly look.  I've broke into the ram rod hole with my trigger guard final several times.  It will be a little different on every gun depending on the drill bit wandering when drilling the ram rod hole. 

Now, that could create a new problem for you.  Depending on trigger set you are using, you may not have enough room for the trigger bars underneath the sear.  The bars will hold a constant up pressure on the sear if they are in contact always.  Thin the triggers bars down and/or bend the sear up to rectify this.  Pressure on the sear will keep the lock from locking at full cock.   Bad news having a lock that goes off when you bump it. 

The other factor you have to take into consideration is the wrist, Is taking a 1/8” off the belly going to create a pinched wrist?  Your wrist should be consistent and flow nicely from the belly to the toe line and from the top of the breech to the comb. 

Don’t be afraid to modify parts to make things work.  Triggers/trigger bars are made as general as possible so they work in a multitude of designs.  I’ve used Davis and L&R triggers with modification and with no modification and the best looking guns have been the ones I had to modify the trigger bars the most on. 

You are working on the Tiger Hunt stock, right?  Every one of his stocks I have used has had the ram rod hole drilled too deep.  It seems I always end up drilling a hole and inserting a wooden dowel for the front trigger guard screw because it hit the ram rod hole void.   Par for the course on this stock.  Take a ram rod drop it into the barrel and mark the depth on the ram rod.  Place the ram rod on the outside of the stock and mark the end of the ram rod on the stock.  Now you know where you need to be with that trigger guard screw if possible.    You’ll probably need to turn the screw head down a little also to get a healthy screw without a large screw head. 

Hope that helps some.
Ken

[eagle24]

Thanks for all the input.  You have made me aware of some other issues I had not thought of.

Guy,
I do prefer a screwed on triggerguard for this rifle.  I have one of Dennis' guards which is the pinned type, but I am using a Bean style guard with screws on this one.

T,
The triggers are the DA Davis triggers that Jim Chambers sells with the tall trigger bars that have to be filed, so I should'nt have to go too deep to make the trigger engage the sear.  In fact, I guess I will be filing a lot off the trigger bars (gates??).

Ken,
You are right on the precarve.  Funny you mentioned a pinched wrist.  I think I understand what you are talking about (smaller at the breech than at the comb?).  I have seen some pics of originals that had this feature and IMO it is'nt a very flattering feature to the lines of the rifle.  I have some issues with the precarved stock in the wrist area that are issues even before I consider changing the bottom line of the stock.  The wrist was carved very thin to begin with and I lost a little when I inlet the tang.  The precarve also arrived with some cast-off that I did not really want.  I tried to cheat a little of the cast-off out of it, but I lost a little more material in the wrist.  What I am saying is that some of the architecture of this stock is defined by what I had to work with and is not going to turn out exactly like I would have laid it off if I had been working from an unshaped stock blank.  I'm sure an experienced builder could have done a lot more with it.  I've learned some things that will help on the next one.  I'll say this, she will have a very skinny wrist, especially for a .50cal rifle.  Judging from where the ramrod hole is, I don't think I will have any problems with room for the trigger bars under the sear lever.  The .32cal rifle I got from Curt Lyles has the same lock and triggers I am using and I don't see any way I will get the triggers as close to the lock as Curt did on that one because of the location of the ramrod hole.  Thanks a lot for chiming in (all of you).

Greg

[Dennis Glazener]

Guy,
I do prefer a screwed on triggerguard for this rifle.  I have one of Dennis' guards which is the pinned type, but I am using a Bean style guard with screws on this one.

Eagle24,
That Gillespie guard on the original was screwed on. The screws go in the middle of the "cross" in the front/rear extensions. When I had the mold made I had it made where it could be pinned if people preferred that to screws. I should have told you that. I most often pin the rear and screw the front. Sometimes I screw both ends. You probably will have to file a notch in the front guard extension and also file the front of the trigger plate to get the guard down deep enough.
Dennis

[eagle24]

Thanks Dennis.  I like the design of the Gillespie Guard better than the one I'm going to use on this rifle, but I have a barrel and chunk of maple for my next rifle that I'm going to put your guard on.  It is a smaller barrel at the breech and I think your guard will look better on it than this rifle.  Now that you mentioned it, I think you did tell me that guard was screwed on.  I guess I forgot and with the tabs had in my mind that it was designed to be pinned.