Which type FOWLER trigger is best?

[Roger Fisher]

My 28 gauge fowler that I use for matches (r ball) has one of those 100 lb trigger pulls.  I have done about everything I can think of to lighten said pull with only passable results.   Including letting her soak overnight in the spring at full moon I have, lightened the main spring, actually bent the sear so she rides on the trigger bar nearer the axle, slicked her as well as I can. Nutzed with the notch abt a hundred times and have that combo pretty nice.  She still seems hard (no creep) when shooting in the matches.  Should I take that main spring down still more??
That is my temptation (as least one of them)  Soooo, what would you do?

The ab involves a trigger with the axle thru a bolster and the tang screw thru the trigger plate, so moving that entire assembly seems not to be an option..  Sear is a bit too far removed from the axle.

Basic question now is: What is the better option of triggers in such a smoothy?
The trigger axle thru a bolster as described above or a trigger with the axle higher on the trigger and pinned thru the stock.  I shied away from such due to a concern with the hole thru the stock binding on the pin.  Maybe farfetched>>  What say You

[Jim Filipski]

Roger,
I know you said you slicked it up but what about the sear spring? You probably worked that already(?)
Jim

[Roger Fisher]

Roger,
I know you said you slicked it up but what about the sear spring? You probably worked that already(?)
Jim

Oops forgot to say that was the v first thing I did. That sear spring is paper thin now and just manages to push her into the notches. Like I said I can't think of anything else to do except thin down the main spring 'more'.  She has plenty of snap; but not overly so

[Jim Filipski]

Roger,
In that case I would make a new trigger leave the existing plate but pin it in the wood higher up. (Never had a problem with pinned in wood triggers)

If you are good with geometry there is a possibility that  you could use the existing trigger as you do now but weld more metal to the top and by doing some fancy reshaping of the angle ( where it meets the sear bar) possibly get it to improve slightly ( may require some deepening and lengthening of the inside of you inlet)

I still would go with a new pinned trigger however
Jim

[G-Man]

Hi Roger - If I understand correctly you have one of those trigger plates with the bolster/ "ears" on top  and the trigger is pinned to the plate.  These often result in a heavy pull as the leverage point is low and far from the sear.  Sort of like being on a see-saw with someone who is heavier than you and they are a longer way from the pivot.

I am not sure if it will work for yours, but you might be able to fit a new trigger to your plate and pin it closer to the sear for more leverage.  (Although you might have already considered all this and ruled it out already). If so you don't have to move the whole assembly - keep your plate  and you can get a casting of a trigger with a lot of height (metal) on it to work with (get one without a plate), or cold forge your own from mild steel.  Take your plate out, remove the old trigger, and fit your new trigger to the slot.  Then shape and inlet your new trigger for a higher pivot point, closer to the sear, and pin it in the wood. Hershel shows how to forge a trigger and use this method in his video. I built an English fowler this way and it had a wonderful easy pull. 

You will want it to allow a slight bit of play in all positions (full cock, half cock and rest).  Make sure you check all 3 because some locks (the L&R Queen Anne for one) have the sear sticking out (down) farther at half cock than the other positions and if there is not at a hair of play at each position the trigger is pressing against the sear and it may not allow the sear to fully engage the notch, which is a safety concern.  I.e. Many people will shave the trigger just enough to allow it to engage the full cock notch with no play, which makes it not fully engage the half cock on some locks.

Good luck

Guy

[Dr. Tim-Boone]

I used a Brown Bess style trigger pinned high and pretty close. Got about a 3.5 lb pull that is real smooth with no creep.  Been shooting it a couple of years now and no problem. Use a hard, well polished pin.

[northmn]

I like the idea of using a different trigger pinned into the wood further up.  They always worked ok for me and others.  were the wood to wear it is really not that hard of a repair some time in the future.  The trigger plates with that large attachment on front to pin the trigger to English style require more wood removal than is needed.  Once in while you run into a full cock notch shapped like a half cock notch.  I have one like that on an old set of locks I bought.  You have to patiently work the notch with flat faced stones until you get a decent pull.  in a older case hardened tumbler you have to reharden.  the new ones like L&R should be hardened through.  It is tedious and you have to eyeball the sear tumbler relationship.  Sometimes if the engagement is too deep you have to take the depth down also.  If you screw up, (which none of us do) you can do some recutting with a Dremmel Cutoff wheel.  Too much depth means a long pull, wrong angle makes the pull hard.  As you see most like to work geometry out first, but if you take the lock out and set it off by hand and it works hard you need to hone.
Some like to polish the heck out of the sear trigger engagement for smoothness also.

DP 

[Dphariss]

The notch in the tumbler needs to nearly match a radius off the sear screw. If the radius is too large the sear will push out. If too small (too much hook on the notch) the sear has to push the cock back to get out of the notch.
I would case harden the sear and tumbler after they are shaped and polished.
Check the trigger pull with the cock down to see how much is sear spring. The sear spring is not meant to hold the sear in teh notch. It just positions it so it engages the notches. The sear should stay in the notch with no spring
A heavy mainspring can increase the force needed to fire the lock but a properly done sear nose and notch can work very well with a heavy spring.
You should be able to get it down to a couple of pounds.
I had a side lock gun with a pretty heavy mainspring and I got it down under a pound. Too light for hunting but the rifle was dedicated match rifle. Would still pass my 3 whacks with a light mallet test.

Dan

[northmn]

The notch in the tumbler needs to nearly match a radius off the sear screw. If the radius is too large the sear will push out. If too small (too much hook on the notch) the sear has to push the cock back to get out of the notch.
I would case harden the sear and tumbler after they are shaped and polished.
I had a side lock gun with a pretty heavy mainspring and I got it down under a pound. Too light for hunting but the rifle was dedicated match rifle. Would still pass my 3 whacks with a light mallet test.

Dan

The three whacks test is a good point.  You can go so far as to make them dangerous.  I used to bounce the installed lock in the gun and bounce it lightly of the butt a few times or give the side of the gun a few whacks.  Used to do adjust sear tumbler engagements lot but have trouble explaining the procedure.  I had seen some so bad that you could not get a set trigger to set them off with a reasonable trigger spring adjustment.  One other point is that I also put a light spring, ( used to straigthen out ball point pen springs) and screw one end into the trigger plate and another inserted into a hole in the trigger.  Leaves no slack, saves a lot of fine adjustment and it was done on at least late period shotguns.

DP