Author Topic: Tennessee Rifle Finished  (Read 5210 times)

Offline silky

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 101
Tennessee Rifle Finished
« on: October 02, 2017, 05:09:15 AM »
Hi Guys,

I've only posted here a few times, but spent hours and hours reading through old threads to learn how to put together a rifle; my thanks to those who answered my questions, and to everyone for offering all their expertise for guys like me to learn from.

This rifle fought me every step of the way (took over a year of off-and-on work) -- lots of mistakes and headaches -- but I like to think she was teaching me lessons that will help me get better in this new hobby of mine.  As for the specifics...

- .45 caliber Colerain barrel
- Large Siler Lock
- Iron furniture from a number of sources
- All metal cold-browned
- Stained with a water-based wood stain
- Jim Chambers Oil Finish

Areas for improvement include inletting, keeping the stock where the back of the barrel meets the tang nice and perpendicular to the barrel (gotta kinda rounded, exposing some of the tang/breech plug when viewed from the side), making the rear sight install a little cleaner, and not losing some wood around the tennon  pin holes. But a few things I'm pleased with are the browning, the overall wood color and finish, and the overall slenderness of the rifle.

A question: when browning, the seam between the barrel and the tang/breech plug wouldn't "hold" the rust. It came right off when carding. I saw this happen early, so I degreased it again before continuing, but any build-up would come right off. What would cause this?

I welcome any feedback or critiques, because I want to get a lot better at this.

Thanks for everything, gents!

- Tom










Black Hand

  • Guest
Re: Tennessee Rifle Finished
« Reply #1 on: October 02, 2017, 05:15:03 AM »
Looks like it's missing a sideplate...

Offline David Rase

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4320
  • If we need it here, make it here. Charlie Daniels
Re: Tennessee Rifle Finished
« Reply #2 on: October 02, 2017, 05:53:14 AM »
A question: when browning, the seam between the barrel and the tang/breech plug wouldn't "hold" the rust. It came right off when carding. I saw this happen early, so I degreased it again before continuing, but any build-up would come right off. What would cause this?
Could still be oil or a lubricant from the breech plug threads being wicked out from the browning process.
David

Offline Mike Brooks

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 13415
    • Mike Brooks Gunmaker
Re: Tennessee Rifle Finished
« Reply #3 on: October 02, 2017, 12:06:07 PM »
Looks pretty good. I can only pick nits with this one. I'd use an English style lock next time. Also I'd roll over the edge of where the buttplate would be a little bit more, a little sharp right there. Maybe show just a little more barrel too. I'd be tempted to have made the lock panels a bit smaller, but many of the Appalachia guns had large lock panels. Overall you did a very good job.
NEW WEBSITE! www.mikebrooksflintlocks.com
Say, any of you boys smithies? Or, if not smithies per se, were you otherwise trained in the metallurgic arts before straitened circumstances forced you into a life of aimless wanderin'?

Offline Bob Roller

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 9687
Re: Tennessee Rifle Finished
« Reply #4 on: October 02, 2017, 03:38:37 PM »
Looks pretty good. I can only pick nits with this one. I'd use an English style lock next time. Also I'd roll over the edge of where the buttplate would be a little bit more, a little sharp right there. Maybe show just a little more barrel too. I'd be tempted to have made the lock panels a bit smaller, but many of the Appalachia guns had large lock panels. Overall you did a very good job.

Mike is right. If you make another one,use the Chambers Late Ketland.Like the Hawken,these rifles are mostly similar but
no two are alike and NONE are perfect so don't worry about that.

Bob Roller

n stephenson

  • Guest
Re: Tennessee Rifle Finished
« Reply #5 on: October 02, 2017, 03:42:01 PM »
Tom,  Mike has given an accurate assessment . Overall you did a good job ,and should be proud. Pretty much like everyone else does on their first builds , you just left a little extra wood here and there . The good part of that is that , if you ever wanted to, you can always go back and remove the wood and refinish. At least you didn't take off too much.  Good Job!!    Nate

Offline taco650

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 122
Re: Tennessee Rifle Finished
« Reply #6 on: October 02, 2017, 06:40:23 PM »
I like it! Hope my first "real" build looks as nice when I'm done.  How does it shoot?

greybeard

  • Guest
Re: Tennessee Rifle Finished
« Reply #7 on: October 02, 2017, 09:50:00 PM »
To men it is a treat to a nice gun that looks new. I am not a big an of phony aged guns but that is just me. I like it a lot.  Bob

Offline KC

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 459
Re: Tennessee Rifle Finished
« Reply #8 on: October 02, 2017, 11:14:57 PM »
Tom,
I like the simplicity of your gun, it's a very nice looking rifle. I'm still working on my first longrifle and hope I end up with one worthy of posting here. I have noticed that one of the most common comments to new builders is that "you've left a little too much wood". Yours looks pretty slender, but I took a gun building class with a guy who build one of Jim Kibler's kits and I was amazed at how thin a Southern Mountain Rifle stock could be (and be shipped without damage...a testament to Kibler's packaging skills).

Anyway, by my eye, a great looking gun.
K.C.
K.C. Clem
Bradenton, FL

Offline PPatch

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2456
Re: Tennessee Rifle Finished
« Reply #9 on: October 02, 2017, 11:59:29 PM »
It may have fought you but you ended up with a good looking gun. It it shoots as good as it looks you have a winner. It should.

I like it.

dave
Dave Parks   /   Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?

Offline hanshi

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5335
  • My passion is longrifles!
    • martialartsusa.com
Re: Tennessee Rifle Finished
« Reply #10 on: October 03, 2017, 12:14:21 AM »
Other than a few minor points that were pointed out, I can find nothing I don't like about your rifle.  You did a good job, in my opinion.  When it burns powder you'll know you like it too.
!Jozai Senjo! "always present on the battlefield"
Young guys should hang out with old guys; old guys know stuff.

54ball

  • Guest
Re: Tennessee Rifle Finished
« Reply #11 on: October 03, 2017, 01:39:33 PM »
 OK....
 
 I like it. Very nice!

 Since you asked for a critique, here's what I see....

 First potential function problems,
 Please post a close-up of the tang and breech behind the barrel breechface....where the back of the barrel and tang area meets the breech face of the stock.
 It looks like you have a little gap between the breech face of the stock and the rear face of the barrel.
 If so, this really needs to be fixed as recoil will place all force on the rear of the tang, tag bolt and the rear lock bolt. All those points can crack the stock at those places and cause a wandering zero as far as accuracy. We need a close up because sometimes photos are deceiving and that might be where the brown did not take. To me right now it looks like a gap.
 It looks less than a 16th so you might can ease the barrel assembly back or glue in some wood ..Like I said a more detailed photo will help us to offer a solution if there is a gap there.

 It's really No Biggie, Wallace Gussler one of the great current builders has said he would like to build one rifle in his life that did not have glue!

 Pins...
 If you have slack around the pins, this is even more reason to fix that possible gap behind the barrel face. Now the holes around the pins can be fixed. In my opinion...just re do them. Take some maple, shape these little pieces like you are making a tooth pick and fill the hole. Do each side.

 Once the stock is repaired, the underlugs will need attention. Your best bet may be to replace the underlugs. You might can slot then or even remove them and peen the old pin hole closed in a vise. What you do not want is your old hole in the lug to grab and break that 16th drill.
I recommend new lugs.
 Use a depth gauge to lay out the target on each side of the stock. You will drill half way from each side. With practice and good layout both holes should meet.  Drill the,pin holes first with barrel out. Replace the barrel, Then drill through the lug. Do not go all the way though the stock. Go through the lug, stop ,and drill through the other side.
 You can practice drilling on a 2x4 with the targets laid out on each side. With practice you,will meet the same hole.

 Little non functional details...

 Once again I really like your Rifle!

 It can go slimmer. From above looking down the widest part of the lower forestock ahaead of the lock panels should be about 1/8 inch wider than the barrel. This is the fattest part....about 3/4 up from the bottom of the stock. On the upper forestock, the stock is 1/16th wider than the barrel at the fattest or widest part of the stock with the transition at the entry pipe.
 A small detail but something to consider if you re do the lugs and pin holes.

 Lock Bolts....
 I like the clean look with no side plate. In my opinion, round headed bolts look better without a side plate where the square head bolts look better with a side plate. So personally, I would round off the heads of those Lock nails/bolts.

 Immediately behind the barrel....you can bring the wood down mimicking the octagonal flat.....this is a small deatail. This brings the top edge of the panel closer to the top of the lock and closer to the rear lock bolt. Like I said a small detail that you might incorporate in your nest one.

 Look Here....http://americanlongrifles.org/forum/index.php?topic=8015.0

 Note how slim the rifle is when viewed from above. Where you can read MG on the barrel.

 As said I really like your rifle. The only thing I see that really needs attention is the possible gap behind the barrel. All else is detail stuff.

 PS....I have to repair a pin hole on one of mine.
 
« Last Edit: October 03, 2017, 01:44:49 PM by 54ball »

Offline gusd

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 303
Re: Tennessee Rifle Finished
« Reply #12 on: October 03, 2017, 03:48:38 PM »
I like the color of the stock. The rifle is very pleasing to the eye!
gus

Offline silky

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 101
Re: Tennessee Rifle Finished
« Reply #13 on: October 04, 2017, 05:18:48 AM »
Thank you all for taking the time to comment and offer your suggestions.  I truly appreciate each of you taking the time to offer your inputs and encouragement.  A few follow-up questions/responses, if you don't mind...

1. Sounds like the biggest critique is leaving bit too much wood; after looking more closely at some other rifles, including the pics of Matthew Gillespie's (thanks, 54ball!), it makes perfect sense.  I'm happy that she's not too fat, but I can definitely make future builds thinner.  Now, I'd say that I'll focus on that on my next build, but it's one of Jim Kibler's Southern Mountain Rifles... looks perfect already!  I see what you guys mean about a good-looking rifle having very little wood.

2. Regarding the oil interfering with the browning at the seam of the barrel/breech plug -- what is the fix?  Do you guys remove and degrease the entire breech plug before reassembling and browning?  Or should I brown the two separately?  I left the breech plug/tang in the barrel and degreased/browned it as one whole unit.

3. Mike, I do agree that the corners on the butt are a bit sharp, and probably won't stand up too well to heavy use.  I'd make them softer/more round if I could do it again.  Lesson learned.

4.  54ball, thanks for taking the time to offer the detailed comments, along with fixes.  I *think* the photos are a bit deceiving.  When I was prepping (sanding/filing) the wood for the final finish, I inadvertently rounded the wood toward the top of the breech face, thereby exposing a little bit of the tang that shouldn't be visible.  But the ass end of the barrel sits flush with the wood below that, probably for about 9/10 of the vertical width of the barrel.  At the bottom of this post is a sideview diagram of what I'm trying to relate.  Do you think the structural integrity of the rifle is compromised?  I'm fairly confident that the wood at the breech face will bear the brunt of the force when fired, as opposed to the tang and lock bolt... but I'm new to this and don't know for sure.

Regarding the pin holes, do they require fixing as is, or do the adjustments that you detailed only apply if I wind up needing to move the barrel back in the barrel channel?  I think that they're structurally sound, as the fit of the pins was very tight; I was just a bit messy with respect to keeping the holes themselves aesthetic (cracked some wood on the surface).

And looking at it now, I agree that rounded bolt heads would have looked better.  That's a pretty easy fix that I might make.

5. Gus, the wood stain I used is General Finishes Light Brown dye stain.  I wanted an earthy brown and it really did achieve that look... very happy with it.  The stain is very easy to work with and control.

Again, thanks for the critiques, suggestions, and encouragement.  This forum is an incredible resource of knowledge and helpful folks.

I'm looking forward to taking it out for some shooting!

- Tom




« Last Edit: October 04, 2017, 05:25:44 AM by silky »

54ball

  • Guest
Re: Tennessee Rifle Finished
« Reply #14 on: October 05, 2017, 04:31:30 AM »
 Thanks for clarifying and posting the drawing.

 You are good. Since the barrel is fit well at the breech, the pin issue is purely cosmetic.
 Again....Great little rifle!

Offline taco650

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 122
Re: Tennessee Rifle Finished
« Reply #15 on: October 09, 2017, 12:27:53 AM »
How does it shoot?