Spider front sights

[rich pierce]

A lot of Colonial and Revolutionary War era fowling pieces have front sights with “spider legs”.  On most originals I’ve seen these are inletted into the barrel. The only off the shelf one I know of is from Track of the Wolf. But the legs are super skinny and there is not enough there for me to peen the legs into an undercut trough. Ended up inletting it into the barrel and securing with silver solder. Does anyone know another source for spider legged front sights for future projects?  I know most folks simply solder them on.


easy picture upload

[John SMOthermon]

Rich, check Muzzleloaders Builders Supply they have heart,turtle ,horse head shaped sights.

I'm not sure if any of them would work for you but it's worth a look.

The Turtle ones have legs....

[rich pierce]

I’m thinking a curved brass underlug for a round barrel could work if they exist. Cut the skirt to just legs.

[n stephenson]

Rich, What about using delft clay and, casting some in silver. Get some scrap Sterling jewelry and melt it down ?   I had an original fowler barrel with the silver spider sight on it . The legs came almost a third of the way around the barrel. The barrel I had , had a Ketland tombstone mark as well as 1813 British proof marks  and London in block letters . It was about 49 inches long.   Thanks Nate

[rich pierce]

Nate, I’m scared to try casting without some hands on training but that would be the best solution for sure.

[PPatch]

I’m thinking a curved brass underlug for a round barrel could work if they exist. Cut the skirt to just legs.

Good idea! I was looking through my cigar boxes of parts this weekend and found some brass underlug's. I thought huh, with a little modification these might make nice rear sights.

dave

[helwood]

Greetings,    I fabricate my spider front sights.
Materials:  Sterling Silver,  .032" sheet   and    1/8" Square Stock.
Draw and Cut Symmetrical Spider Legs.  Looks kind of like an X, with a thicker area in the center, in the size you might like 1/2" or 5/8" square sheet.
In the very center drill a hole.    With a (square) needle file make the hole square.       Chamfer the bottom of the hole, that will be on the bottom.
Hole equal or less than 1/16"          FRONT POST:   From 1/8th" Square Stock----Leave it as long as you can us like for holding as you want or need for holding in a vice later, say 1 inch.  Next-- File a square shaft the size as the square hole in your spider leg base.      Place the Front Post Shaft in your Vice.    Place the Spider leg Base over the little square shaft, Chamfer Up.    Peen over the shaft into the Chamfered area LIKE A RIVET.     Then put a touch of solder on it for good measure.         After your base is on and you have extra square front sight material in the vice.   File the spider legs into symmetry.   Now that the legs are symmetrical you need to shape them to the shape of the barrel.     WHEN you do this you will find that the legs are no longer 90 degrees to the top of the spider legs.   They roll as you bend them over the barrel.      With a half round needle file refile the edges so they will be 90 degrees to the top edge.   Once you have refiled the base you are ready to inlay.      NOTE:  You still haven't done any shaping to the front sight post.   Later on it can be shaped to a Round Bead, Oval, or whatever.  Also when you are sighting in the gun if the sight is off center there's enough silver to file one side or the other to correct.   Inlet the sight into the barrel the same way other metal to metal inlay is done.          Hank

[SingleMalt]

Nate, I’m scared to try casting without some hands on training but that would be the best solution for sure.

It can't be that difficult, Rich.  I'd hazard a guess that there are several tutorials on the internet, probably even videos on YouTube.  Were I doing it, I'd use coin silver.  A few pre-1963 nickels would be enough, I'd think.

[Hemo]

Nate, I’m scared to try casting without some hands on training but that would be the best solution for sure.

It can't be that difficult, Rich.  I'd hazard a guess that there are several tutorials on the internet, probably even videos on YouTube.  Were I doing it, I'd use coin silver.  A few pre-1963 nickels would be enough, I'd think.

How about this one I just posted here about three weeks ago?
http://americanlongrifles.org/forum/index.php?topic=45872.0

Gregg

[Jeff Stewart]

Regardless of the challenges, you did a nice job on that sight, Rich.  Now you just need to embellish it with some engraving!

[Mike Brooks]

I inlet one of those spider foresights on a gun years ago. it was my first and my last. The old timers must have had a slick way to do it....I sure didn't.

[Hemo]

I inlet one of those spider foresights on a gun years ago. it was my first and my last. The old timers must have had a slick way to do it....I sure didn't.

.

A week or so ago I posted about restoration of an old damaged English fowler. While cleaning up the crud off the barrel of that gun, I was surprised to find a nice silver spider front sight.



It was very thin and delicate and completely flush with the surface of the barrel except for the bead. This was not a high-grade fowler but an export fowler with no fancy bells and whistles. I don't believe the maker(s) would have spent the time to do a perfect detailed undercut inlet on this production gun. I was really reminded of the look of a poured nosecap. I wondered if the arms and base of the spider could have been cut into the barrel with a small file or graver, then the silver poured into the cuts using, possibly, a half round clay mold fixed to the top of the barrel, poured through the site of the bead?   The excess silver could have been easily filed off and the pour spout cut off and turned into a bead. The silver, I expect, would have adhered like silver solder without the need for an undercut. Fast and dirty.

This is just my speculation. I may have to try it sometime on a piece of round barrel just to see if it works. Does anyone actually know how this was done?

Gregg

[n stephenson]

I inlet one of those spider foresights on a gun years ago. it was my first and my last. The old timers must have had a slick way to do it....I sure didn't.

.

A week or so ago I posted about restoration of an old damaged English fowler. While cleaning up the crud off the barrel of that gun, I was surprised to find a nice silver spider front sight.



It was very thin and delicate and completely flush with the surface of the barrel except for the bead. This was not a high-grade fowler but an export fowler with no fancy bells and whistles. I don't believe the maker(s) would have spent the time to do a perfect detailed undercut inlet on this production gun. I was really reminded of the look of a poured nosecap. I wondered if the arms and base of the spider could have been cut into the barrel with a small file or graver, then the silver poured into the cuts using, possibly, a half round clay mold fixed to the top of the barrel, poured through the site of the bead?   The excess silver could have been easily filed off and the pour spout cut off and turned into a bead. The silver, I expect, would have adhered like silver solder without the need for an undercut. Fast and dirty.

This is just my speculation. I may have to try it sometime on a piece of round barrel just to see if it works. Does anyone actually know how this was done?

Gregg

Gregg, Like you , I wondered if they  were possibly cast in place. They would be very thin in the legs and delicate to work with if made ,then installed . If cast in place then shaped it does seem like it would be easier. I really don`t know.   Nate

[rich pierce]

I think that in the period, gun factory workmen had skills and facility hard to imagine for us.  They'd been engraving all day every day since they were 14. Inlaying a sight like that was probably a 15 minute job for them.

[Scota4570]

Maybe they filed the shape as far as they could and then finished up with gravers.  Then braze the metal into the void.  File/scrape it flush.  And then install a speerate bead? 

That is how I'd do it anyway. 

Scot

[Mike Brooks]

On the originals I have examined the bead and the spider is all one piece. Also I have seen barrels with the spider missing and it looks to have been cut with a chisel and then undercut on the edges with probably a chisel as well. Very shallow inlet. Many of these barrels are super thin at the muzzle as well.

[n stephenson]

Once again , it appears that the old timers have left us scratching our heads . As stated, it was probably nothing to them. As Mike stated the barrel I had was VERY thin at the muzzle.