Building an English Fowler FINALLY FINISHED

[smart dog]

Hi Richard,
I was responding to one of the posts on the thread you linked to that suggested the barrel was by Brazier, which it certainly could be but he did make complete guns.

dave

[smart dog]

Hi,
I lnlet the lock plate.  I'll get to the lock guts later after I do some stock shaping but I wanted the plate in for now.  I don't intend to discuss all aspects of building a gun because most of the basics are covered in other tutorials.  I will describe feature specific to British fowling guns.  One of those features is that the rear lock bolt is rarely drilled through the plate.  It is almost always threaded into a blind hole. Drilling and tapping blind holes are tricky.  My drill press has a depth gauge so I can set the drill depth to just less than the bolster thickness.  The forward bolt is drilled through and hidden behind the frizzen spring.  For tapping I use starting and bottoming taps.  I had to carefully mark the holes before drilling because the spacing between the holes must be about 3 1/4" – 3 5/16" to fit my cast silver side plate. Once the plate was marked and drilled, I had to drill through the stock and make sure the spacing of the holes matched my side plate.  The forward lock bolt is easy, just put the plate in the stock and drill through the hole.  However, you must make sure the drill is perpendicular to the stock. The sides of the stock are still square with the top and bottom, so I put the stock in my drill press vise and check levelness with a round bubble level.  Once everything is set up, I drill the hole.


To mark the rear hole location on the wood, I made a small point that fits into the rear bolt hole on the plate. I place the plate in the mortice and tap it.  The little point marks the hole.  Then I level up the stock in the drill press and drill the hole.



I enlarge the holes in the stock with a clearance drill and then use a long starter tap to thread the holes in the plate using the stock holes as guides.  The spacing came out just right for my side plate.

For the blind hole, I just cut threads until I fell resistance growing, remove the plate and finish the threads with a bottoming tap.  I am using large dome headed 8-32 bolts from TOW.  The heads had a lot of excess for shaping. Here is the lock plate inlet with bolts installed.  I've sketched in the potential "outer" boundaries of the lock panel.  They will only get narrower from there.

dave     

[Justin Urbantas]

Do you inlet the lock with the stock already brought down all the way to the final level? Also, why would they not drill and tap the rear lock bolt all the way through, but they would the front? Aesthetics?

[smart dog]

Hi Justin,
Good questions.  Yes, I don't start inletting locks until the surface of the wood is almost down to the finished level. That way I don't have a lot of extra wood to remove during inletting, I can see the fit of the plate better with no shoulder of wood obscuring my view, and there is less risk that a deep shoulder of wood catches the metal while lifting the plate out and chips away.  With respect to the rear lock bolt, I am pretty sure it was aesthetics.  The forward bolt is hidden behind the feather spring and I suspect 18th century British makers were reluctant to have the rear bolt showing.  Consider, they also used long sear springs on locks of this period so the sear spring screw was hidden behind the flint cock.  Regardless of the reason, you rarely find a lock on a better quality British gun from this period with the rear bolt drilled through and that includes flat-faced locks.  Both bolts were drilled through on muskets but not sporting guns.  When I see a purported English fowler with wide flats around a round-faced lock and the rear bolt hole drilled through, I can be almost certain that it is a modern creation.

dave

[Justin Urbantas]

thanks for the info

[runastav]

Very Nice Smarte Hund!
Runar

[yip]

 smart dog; whats your plan on a trigger? do you plan on buying or are you going to make one, if your planning on making one please show process......yip

[smart dog]

Hi,
Before installing the butt plate, I wanted to do some stock shaping.  I notice that quite a few builders install all the hardware on their guns while the stock is still squared up.  I did that on the first 2 or 3 guns I built before I learned how easy it was to screw up the architecture of a gun by doing that.  That is particularly the case with butt plates and trigger guards.  In my opinion, never inlet a guard until the gun is ready for final finishing and do not inlet a butt plate until you have shaped the butt stock close to its final profile.  This is particularly true for butt plates with long inlet tangs like on British fowlers.  It is very difficult to alter angles and profiles once those butt plates are fully inlet.  It is much easier to make sure all of that is well established before inletting. Certainly, good drawings are a must but they are 2 dimensional.  As you shape and curve surfaces, you often find that 2-D profiles need adjustment because of the shadows and 3-D depth created as the stock is rounded into the appropriate contours. 

Installing butt plates with long ornate tangs or returns is a challenge. Dave Rase posted a super tutorial on inletting a French style butt plate.  He had the challenge of a tang that thinned and swelled such that it has to be inlet straight down.  However, Dave had the advantage of the butt plate that was very straight so he could cut the stock off straight down and then inlet the plate downward.  In my case, the return thins monotonically meaning each progressively smaller section is a smaller version of the previous wider section. That allows you to inlet down and forward without creating gaps.  However, I had the added challenge that my plate has a slight crescent so I had to simultaneously fit the tang and face plate down and in. In this process I made my first blunder on this gun.  I usually like to carve the stock into a dome that fits into the dome on the heel of the butt plate.  I forgot about that and cut it off when trimming the wood to the profile of the plate. As such there will be a slight gap between the wood and dome where the upper screw goes.  The steel butt plate is very rigid and strong so it won't matter, but if I was making a plate from silver I think I would want the wood supporting the butt plate fully from behind.  Anyway, if this is the only mistake I make, I'll be happy.

I rough shaped the butt stock to get rid of a lot of excess wood before doing the butt plate.  I also placed the plate against the stock and traced the profile of the crescent on the stock. I then filed the wood down close to that line using my pattern maker's rasp.  With that done, the first task is to inlet the lug on the tang.  As I inlet the plate, that lug is going to move forward so the inlet will have some extra space behind.


Then I determine where the shoulder at the top of the radius should be and cut that and the radius into the wood.


Once I get the shoulder and radius cut, I trace around the tang and inlet it in stages.  I essentially work forward from the shoulder until the entire tang is inlet.  By trimming wood off the crescent close to my traced line, I usually do not have much fitting to do to move the butt plate forward for complete contact with the wood.  This is when I use inletting black and go slow. Trimming or scraping away the sides and shoulders of the tang inlet is tricky but with care the plate moves forward nicely for a perfect fit.  When you are really close, if you are inletting a brass butt plate, you can hammer the metal into the wood to close up small gaps.  That is not easily done with the steel plate so I have to keep inletting until I get a perfect fit.  After fitting the plate, I drilled it for the 2 screws.  I will counter sink and file them flush later.  The butt plate came out very well.





More to come.

dave

[Justin Urbantas]

It looks like you do all the buttplate fitting with a rasp? I am never that accurate. I get it close with rasps, and do the rest with gouges and chisels.

[smart dog]

Hi Justin,
I use everything in my arsenal of tools that work but yes, on this butt plate most of the fitting of the face plate was done with a #49 Nicholson pattern maker's rasp.  Except for the heel, the plate has little doming, which makes using the rasp easy and fast.  It is often easier to rasp and file end grain than carve it.  If I had left more wood under the heel instead of mistakenly cutting it off when I trimmed the end of stock on my band saw, that area would be carved more with chisels. The radius and tang are inlet with chisels.

dave 

[Pukka Bundook]

Lovely work as usual Dave.
Do I note a shade of cast off at the toe?

All very well done!

[rich pierce]

Very helpful. What’s new to me is creating that radius and step in your initial sawing of the buttstock. I’m not sure how to describe it. But it’s the prep for the corner transition. I’ve never incorporated a step. Want to try that.

[smart dog]

Hi,
Richard, there is 3/16" of cast off.

I did some shaping of the butt stock and lock area.  British fowling guns had well defined baluster wrists during most of the 18th century.  The round wrist extends well into the butt.  I shape them by using a Gunline round barrel bedding float after I've removed a lot of excess wood off the stock.  The float scrapes a nice radius at the intersection of the comb and wrist.  Then I use my pattern maker's rasp to blend in the groove.


I won't shape things to final dimensions yet.  The wrist will eventually be thinner and more defined as will the rest of the butt.  I prefer to work the stock in different areas simultaneously so I can see the final shape start to evolve slowly.  That way I can make adjustments as I progress to improve the architecture and fit of the stock.


A feature of lock area of these guns is that they tend to have a high "crown" above the lock but not much wood below the lock such that the bottom is not domed very much.



You can begin to see how graceful the stock will be.
More to come.
dave 

[Greg Pennell]

That sure is a nice stick of English walnut...continental or California?  I used to have a source that was an arborist in the California walnut groves...he had some spectacular blanks nearly all the time (but mostly for shotguns and bolt rifles). I’ll have to ring him up and ask about something longer.

Greg

[BOB HILL]

Dave, I sure am enjoying this build. Thankks again for sharing your great talents with us.
Bob

[SingleMalt]

It's really taking shape well.  A quick search on Brownell's site shows three sizes of the same tool you've pictured.  Which one do you favor for this work?

[Tim Crosby]

 Really like watching the progress, you have a Great eye Dave.

  Tim

[Marcruger]

I sure enjoy seeing your shaping work.  You make it look easy.  That is going to be a lovely gun when done.  God made some nice grain in that piece of wood too.  Best wishes,   Marc

[n stephenson]

Dave, She`s shaping up nicely. Can`t wait to see finish on that figure!! Nice Work!!! Nate

[D. Taylor Sapergia]

Can`t wait to see finish on that figure!! Nice Work!!! Nate

I can wait...I'm enjoying seeing the process and progress.

[smart dog]

Hi,
Thanks for looking folks.  I am feeling better and getting back on a roll I should be posting topics in a more timely fashion. 

Yip, I will use a cast trigger sold by TOW (TR-Fowl-MH-T).  This is the best plain trigger sold commercially you can use for a British fowler.  However, on 2 occasions, I forged exact copies of that trigger (the one on my English rifle for example) because the cast steel ones were back ordered for months.  That seems to be a common occurrence these days for cast steel parts.  When they were available I bought 5 to keep in stock. The trigger plate sold in association with the trigger is the right shape but too short.  I make my own trigger plates.

Wayne, I have 5/8" and 3/4" diameter bedding floats.  Either one will work for shaping the baluster wrist.  Keep in mind, on sporting guns the crease was a radius but on Brown Besses it was a sharp corner.

Greg, the wood is from Goby Walnut in Portland Oregon.  I am a fan of their company and if you look at their internet gallery of work, you will see a dueling pistol I made.  I do not know the origin of the English walnut but it is dense and hard.  It is the finest wood for stocks I have ever used.   

Thanks again to everyone who commented and looked at this thread.

dave   

[Justin Urbantas]

is there a big difference in the look of English and black walnut? English walnut if awfully spendy

[Clark Badgett]

is there a big difference in the look of English and black walnut? English walnut if awfully spendy

The English walnut that I've seen on older guns has had a more red tent, while the American has usually been more of a chocolate color. I'm sure there are plenty of exceptions to this.

[smart dog]

Hi Justin,
There are huge differences between the two species of walnut; however, within a species, the growing conditions create a lot of variation such that you can find very dense hard black walnut blanks and English walnut blanks that are weaker and softer.  Nonetheless, in general, English walnut (Juglans regia) is harder and denser than American black walnut (Juglans nigra), has warmer colors, and cuts more cleanly without as much tearing or chipping.  English walnut is also called European, French, Bastogne, Circassian, Persian, and Turkish walnut all of which are just regional varieties.  There is also California or Claro walnut (Juglans hindsii), the lumber from which may be J. hindsii or English walnut grafted to Claro root stock.  It can be very beautiful and usually falls somewhere between English and black walnut for workability and strength.  If you are making a British sporting or military gun, the most appropriate wood is English walnut. Yes, wood was imported from America, yes there was a short-lived fashion for using figured maple, yes there are rare examples of other woods but if you examined 100 original British guns from the 18th century probably >95 would be stocked in English walnut. Having written all of that, I understand completely the challenge of finding English walnut blanks long enough for full stocked fowling or military guns and their high cost.  When I get to finishing this gun I will explain how to make black walnut look like English.

dave 

[Pukka Bundook]

One option for good wood a  little too short is make the stock divided at the fore-end.  You know this Dave, but just throwing it out there.
More work, yes, but it Can work.

Lovely job Mr. Dave!