Turnscrew?

[J.D.]

I am interested in making a few 18th century style wooden handled turnscrews for use in demonstrations. In looking through my books and on the web, I can't seem to find an clear illustration of what I am looking for. So, does anyone know where I can find a good illustration  of a proper, wood handled turnscrew?

I have a coupla forged pieces based on illustrations in various books, but I'm looking for something a little more representative of what a master gunsmith might use; Something more stylish than would be used in a back country shop.

Thanks and God bless,
J.D.

[bigsky]

Check out this ebay seller.  He has horn-handled turnscrews in several styles that you might be able to get an idea from.

http://shop.ebay.com/merchant/henrys1974

[Elnathan]

http://www.amazon.com/Tools-Working-Eighteenth-Century-Decorative-Publications/dp/0879350989/ref=wl_it_dp?ie=UTF8&coliid=IOAZRAJ727TYB&colid=10OERFA3SD0O1

I have scans from that that have a couple turnscrews in them - I'll try and upload them later this evening.

Mercer's Ancient Carpenters' Tools might have something. I haven't seen it myself, so I couldn't say for sure.

[Elnathan]

Ok. here are some scans from Tools: Working Wood in Eighteenth-Century America featuring turnscrews.


Turnscrew in the center foreground. I suspect that this one is may be most typical of factory-made turnscrews in the period. The basic shape I believe to be the "London pattern" and it seems to have survived up until WWII, judging from some examples here:
http://www.oldtools.co.uk/tools/misc/screwdrivers/screwdrivers.pg1.php



Two craftsman-made turnscrews. I love the one made from the swordblade.



Not sure about this one. If you look right below the row of molding planes there is a tool pointing straight down that looks like a turnscrew. It might be a file, but I don't see any evidence of teeth and it also has more of a leaf-shape than files normally do. I am pretty sure the tool beneath the handle is a file.

18th century turnscrews are hard to find pictures of, for sure.

[J.D.]

Thank you both for posting those links and very interesting photos.
I have never seen the barrel shaped, T handle turnscrew. The great thing about this forum is the opportunity to learn something new every day, and today is no exception.

I finally found a fairly good representation of what I thought I was looking for in the bottom photo on Blackley's web page.

http://www.blackleyandson.com/acatalog/Turnscrews.html

I may, however,  have to revise my idea of what an 18th century turnscrew looked like. 

I love the turnscrew made from the sword blade too. I may have to replicate that, just for grins.

Thanks and God bless,
J.D.

[smart dog]

JD,
Here are a couple of hand tools I made that look the part. One is a turnscrew with ebony handle and the other is a nipple wrench with an English walnut handle.  The brass ferrules were made from brass pipe fittings that I turned down on a wood lathe using files. They are working tools, not just for show and they feel really great in the hand.

dave

[J.D.]

Now those are snazzy, Dave. Easily suitable for a cased piece.

Thanks for everyone's ideas.

God Bless,
J.D.

[G. Elsenbeck]

Dave, great looking tools that look like they belong in the shop.  Actually would look better in mine as well.    I like the fluting.  Did you carve each or some other method?

J. D. I do have some of the early styles like Dave made from England, probably early 20th or late 19th centuries.  However, I find they really aren't that stout and most likely not the best quality, but they do look nice to look at.  I'd love to find one that would actually turn a wood screw without yielding to the torque.  Just to add to the conversation, I don't believe carpenters really didn't start using 'screwdrivers' as a practice until the 19th century.  On the other hand, cabinetmakers/gunmakers definitely used them on a daily basis.  Some turnscrews were meant to use in a bit and brace so more torque could be applied.
Would like to see what you end up with.  Perhaps a couple available for any field testers might be in the offering? 

[smart dog]

I turned the handles down to the general shape on a lathe and then carved the flutes with gouges.  It was pretty easy to do.

dave

[J.D.]

J. D. I do have some of the early styles like Dave made from England, probably early 20th or late 19th centuries.  However, I find they really aren't that stout and most likely not the best quality, but they do look nice to look at.  I'd love to find one that would actually turn a wood screw without yielding to the torque. 

Would like to see what you end up with.  Perhaps a couple available for any field testers might be in the offering? 

I wondered about durability of those fancy turnscrews? I plann to make two piece handles and epoxy a generous tang into inlets, so that a goodly amount of torque can be applied, in use. The two handle pieces will be stained and joined, aligning the original cut lines, to help hide the joint.

I have an old, thick crosscut saw blade to provide the hardened and tempered turnscrew blades for smaller sizes, and a hay rake tooth, that will require a little forging, for larger sizes.

I do appreciate your offer to test anything I might make. I suspect they will be subject to more than sufficient use, and occasional abuse. 

Thanks and God bless,
J.D.

[brokenflint]

just exactly is a turnscrew, is this just a term for a screwdriver or does it have a specific application?

[brokenflint]

Little edit here, Just exactly WHAT is a turnscrew, is this a term for a screwdriver or does it have a specific application?  I'd like to see an example of one used in brace and bit.  Would these look like the squared ended wood bit used in a brace and bit?

Broke

[J.D.]

Turnscrew/screwdriver, all the same, different terminology for different centuries and locations.  I don't remember seeing a turnscrew for used in a brace. I have, however, seen a few gimlets, drill bits and countersinks made for use with a brace. I assume the turnscrew would be set up the same way, except for the screw head.
God bless,
J.D.

[smart dog]

JD,
I have a brace that was used by my great grandfather when he worked building carousel horses for Coney Island back around the turn of last century.  Along with the brace came some hand forged bits several of which are screw driver bits.  They work really well.  I still use his tools extensively on my guns and other projects. With respect to the durability of the old turnscrews, keep in mind many were ground for the really thin slots on gun screws that were common during the 19th century.  Those screws were not torqued very hard.

dave   

[msblacksmith]

there are several pattern books from the 18th and early 19th century that have turn screws in them. the one that was most recently published is called "a pattern book of tool and household goods"which has an intrduction by jane Rees and elton hall . and was printed by the early american industries association. printed in 2006 isbn#0-943196-04-3. there is another book titled "a catalogue of tool for the watch and clock makers. by john wyke of liverpool. this book was printed by the winterthur musem.i am not sure if this one is still in print but I bought my copy a winterthur a couple of years ago for 10.00

[JCKelly]

My Dad saw this in Grandpa's tool chest (previous owner had been in the 76th Pennsylvania Volunteers) & asked what it was. Grandpa said, Oh, it is to take the drum off of a rifle. This is a 19th century tool. Dad quickly traded him a nice new screwdriver for it.

The wooden handle is 4" long by 15/16" dia at the ends. Blade is 4-3/16" overall, including where it is rivited on to the handle. Blade 0.142" thick at thickest point.
Now try as I might, I cannot figure out how this thing could possibly remove the drum or do anything with Grampa's rifle, which now hangs on my wall (had been his Grandfather's rifle).

[brokenflint]

I'm not a percussion type at all, but I would think that you can use the tabs as a wrench around the flat spot on the drum or nipple, which ever matches up on the rifle.   This might actually be the forerunner of the leatherman multitool    screwdriver / wrench combo.   

Broke

[J.D.]

Now that is an interesting combination tool. I have seen a few combination tools, but nothing quite like that. Veeerry interesting, said in my best Artie Johnson voice.

msblacksmith,
Thanks for those source books. I'll check them out.
God bless,
J.D.

[JCKelly]

Brokenflint--there are no flat spots on the drum, it is round, and that tool, or the tabs on it, is too large to fit the nipple. I messed around with it specifically on my Grandfather's rifle. One of the many, many things I should have asked him about.

[brokenflint]

Think it could have been from another rifle?  I know I have all kinds of stuff in my box which don't fit anything LOL

Broke

[Artificer]

About 6 years ago, I went to the Colonial Williamsburg Gun Shop and asked the same question, "What did an 18th century Turnscrew look like?"

They handed me a couple repro's to look at.  I'm sorry I don't have a camera to take photographs, but imagine a full tang knife with wood slabs pinned to each side of the grip.  The steel was about the same thickness as a knifeblade as it was a good sized blade on it.  The front portion ahead of the grip was just angled down on both sides to the edge of the tip on each side.  Very simply made and practical.

OK, so I asked about period hack saws and some other tools.  THEN they pulled out a reproduction of John Wyke's "A Catalog of Tools for Watch and clock makers."  The copy they had in the shop matched the original catalogs and did not have explanations of the tools.  Wow.  WoW !!

Then I asked them if I could get a copy of it and they said they had published it years ago and thought it was available in the book store.  Well, it wasn't, and it was out of print.  I found one on Amazon and paid about $ 125.00 for it.  About a year later, I found another on EBay and got a "great deal" on it for a little under $ 50.00.

SUPERB NEWS, it is back in print and only $ 35.00

http://www.thebestthings.com/books/toolbooks.htm

Some of these engraved plates date back to 1758, some were added in 1770 and the last few plates added around 1810 (if I remember correctly on the last date.)   Colonial Williamsburg has one of the only four or five known original copies and they use this book as a primary source for authentication and replication of 18th century tools.

This book has illustrations of the engraved plates and explanations of each plate for 18th century files, engravers, chisels, turnscrews, hammers of all sorts, pliers of all sorts, dividers, calipers, many styes of pin, hand and bench vises, drills, drill bits, hack saws, coping saws, jewelers saws, wire drawing plates, screw plates and taps, braces, anvils, metal shears, and of course a host of tools used by clock makers. 

John Wyke (I'm told it is pronounced "Wick") was a wholesaler of tools and not many of these catalogs were ever printed as they cost so much to print in those days.  Wyke had small jobbers make all the items in the catalogs in local shops and he gathered them up and wholesaled them.  It was well known that perriod gunsmiths bought and used many of these tools.

I only recently found out it was back in print and I'm very excited it is once again available.  I have a host of books on early american tools and NONE of them are anywhere CLOSE to as good as this book for the 18th century.