looking for 0.030" patch material

[Black Jaque Janaviac]

This is kind of an odd request, but I'm looking for 0.030" patch material.

When I get a chance I'll take the micrometer to Joanne Fabrics and search their denims, but I do not hold out a lot of hope.  I put some scraps of carhart carpenter pants in between a micrometer with a firm crush and only got 0.018".

I'm hoping somebody can help speed up my search.  For example if someone had experience with say how many ounce-canvas is necessary to mic 0.030".  You just can't shop around for fabrics by micrometer thickness.

I suppose wool might make an acceptable substitute although my wife complains about the smell of bp, if my basement smelled of singed wool while I'm cleaning she'd really be thrilled.

[smokinbuck]

Try finding a "sail" making shop. The canvas they use for boat covers might work??
Mark

[Majorjoel]

For that thickness you may have to resort to leather.   The good thing about leather is that you can use it over and over several times before it wears out.

[D. Taylor Sapergia]

I use the backs of the legs of worn out blue jeans for .030" denim.  Men's jeans, not women's.

[redheart]

I've taken my micrometer into the Salvation Army thrift store a time or two.
I know it's kind of a pain but for now can you use two patches?

[Hungry Horse]

Leather is a poor patch material, because it stretches, and can’t be succesfully reused. Much of the material in the stores today is imported, and not as tightly woven as it used to be, making it a poor choice as a patch material. Most canvas is treated for weather resistance, an is unsuitable as well. Linen would be your best bet, but in that thickness it will be hard to find. Maybe a heavy tablecloth from the thrift store would work. That being said, I have never seen one that thick.
 Just out of curiosity, why do you need such a thick patch?

  Hungry Horse

[smylee grouch]

Several years ago while shopping for patch material I came across some denim that was 30/1000, I think it was 14+ oz. denim and in a un-remembered fabric store. Good luck on your search.

[Daryl]

The 12 ounce denim we get here, I measure at .025" with my mic crushed down hard, and with the calipers, .029 to .030".  I get .035" with 14 ounce denim. That stuff is thick and hard to get the sizing out of - 3 washings will usually do it, though. Tumble dry in the dryer with some running shoes to beat it up.

[EC121]

I got some from an awning supplier.  Do a search for awning canvas or go to the outdoor section of a fabric store.

[Black Jaque Janaviac]

Thanks Daryl!

I found on fabrics.com that you can get sample swatches of some materials.  The cost is low enough I can get several samples shipped and mic them then.  Daryl's information at least gives me a starting point.  I realize that a 14 oz denim might crush down more than another's brands 12 oz.  However I suspect I don't have to waste my time/money on 9.5 ounce denims.

[Black Jaque Janaviac]

The reason?

I saw somewhere that you could paper-patch a cast conical by using two strips of paper laid across the muzzle like an "x".  Then push the bullet into the muzzle.  If the width of the paper strips are 1/4 the circumference of the bullet, it should form a near-perfect patch.  I would try it with a brass rod in an uncharged bore first.  That way I could tip the end down and let the rod punch the bullet back out.

So I thought I might use some heavy denim instead of paper and see if I can run bullets from my other molds through my muzzleloaders.

[Daryl]

Interesting concept using cloth.  I suspect a soft .430" short bullet might be made to fit a .45 RB rifle barrel using this method. As well, a pure lead .452" short bullet might fit a .50.

If you keep them really short, they will fly better. Such as 165 to 200gr. in the .430" and 185 to 220gr. in the .452" bullets.  Regardless of the bore you are putting them through, they will still be a .44 or .45 bullet launched from a slow twist. Winchester did this after the ML era, but his guns were NEVER famous for accuracy, and that was with .56 to 60" twists in .45 and .50's, seems to me.

In thinking more of this concept, it is similar to the picket bullets.  Thus, short and a gas-check design might fold the cloth more easily.  A rod end that fits the bullet nose and is tight to the bore will centre them better. The bug bugaboo with picket bullets, is getting started them straight into the bore, then keeping them straight all the way down.  A guide bullet starter will be a help, but then so will a proper rod tip that fits the bullet.   Epoxy can be cast using seran-wrap around a bullet's nose to make the perfect cavity in a form fitting rod tip.  The larger flared shotgun and smoothbore tips from Track would be a good place to get one.  You can also make wide rod tips from ctg. brass - at least up to 50 using standard mag. brass, .54 with Ultra brass, .10 bore using .5's and .100 using 20 mm brass.

Good enough accuracy for deer at close range, but then a R.E.A.L. bullet from Lee lubed with Lyman's BP Gold, SPG or 60/40 Beeswax/Vaseline would likely be better than cloth patched pistol bullets.

[hortonstn]

Check out big duck canvas.com

[Leatherbark]

Try some Chamois leather from the auto parts store. Should be about right.

Bob

[smallpatch]

Try Jeff Tanner Moulds.  He has some for sure.

[Hungry Horse]

I think you will find that the old timers had a lot more time to think about all the different possibilities available in regards to target shooting. If cloth patching strip would have done the job, they would have used them. Every time I think I have discovered an unknown secret formula to make my muzzleloader shoot well, I find it was either used  couple of hundred years ago with success, or was tried and discarded. Bottom line is, if they had it they tried it. If it didn’t work that’s probably why nobody is using it today. In the back country being a winning match shooter was better than owning. Cadillac in the big city.

  Hungry Horse

[Carney Pace]

Why not try different dia. ball?
I use .013 linen and work ball size.  Out of 14  flintlocks, there is 2 that does not like .013 linen.

Carney

I

[wattlebuster]

I found some mattress ticking at a old fashioned mom an pop fabric store that of course was going out of business an it miked to about 28. You might can see if you have any of the such around where you live

[Rsl]

Try some old cloth coin bags.

[smallpatch]

Try Jeff Tanner Moulds.  He has some for sure

[Daryl]

I measure 12 ounce denim at .030".

I measure 14 ounce denim at .034".

Both shoot well in my .69 (.012" rifling depth) with a .682" ball.

[rollingb]

I measure 12 ounce denim at .030".

I measure 14 ounce denim at .034".

Both shoot well in my .69 (.012" rifling depth) with a .682" ball.

Daryl, your measurements correspond with the .025" 10 ounce canvas duck I have on a roll.
When/if washed (to get the sizing out) this stuff would probably fluff up about another .001".

hortonstn, you mention http://www.bigduckcanvas.com/,.... that's where I buy my canvas, they're good folks to deal with, and their prices are reasonable.

Anyone wishing to try some of this 10 ounce canvas for patch material, give me a shout and I'll send you a piece, that way you won't have to buy a minimum 20 yd. roll.

[Daryl]

$2.80 a yard - #@!! $#@*-shoot that's cheap!
I think I might have to look that place up next time I'm  "down over the line".

20 yard 'spool' is less than $60.00.

Here, that will buy you 4 1/2 yards of denim. Of course, for lots of folks, that will last almost a year.

[rollingb]

$2.80 a yard - #@!! $#@*-shoot that's cheap!
I think I might have to look that place up next time I'm  "down over the line".

20 yard 'spool' is less than $60.00.

Here, that will buy you 4 1/2 yards of denim. Of course, for lots of folks, that will last almost a year.

Yeah, they're darn reasonable with their prices,.......... I bought 100 yards of their natural unbleached 10 oz. canvas duck last year, and still have some left on a roll. 

I usually make a few, flies, diamonds, oil cloths, ground cloths, bags, haversacks, and etc. to take to rendezvous each summer,.... scraps get used for various things as needed.

[satwel]

Have you tried an art supply store like Dick Blick? dickblick.com  They sell various weights of canvas from rolls for oil paintings. I seem to remember a forum poster years ago who said he had found the thick canvas he was looking for at an art supply store.