Help me choose a first flintlock LR to shoot and hunt

[Mauser06]

Be warned....... blackpowder smoke is more addictive than any drug out there! 


As for the latest questions....the only one that really needs answered is walnut or maple.  Both Lancaster and Bucks country guns were largely maple...


I'm not too familiar with Bucks county guns...but Lancasters I know evolved quite a bit as time went on. An early Lancaster is a good bit different from a later one. Something to keep in mind.



For that price, I'd sit back and wait before jumping at anything. You can likely snag a heck of a rifle for that price. 

Also, look at Kibler's news Colonial longrifle kit.  You may like it and decide to do it yourself...you may like it and decide to buy one when one is for sale here...I know a lot of his southern mountain rifles sold around that price when finished.  I'd imagine if a guy carves up the colonial rifle the price may climb a bit higher..but would be a heck of a nice gun cheaper than you can commission most custom builds for. 

[Cossack]

I just spotted this here - It appears to have most of what I'm looking for for a lot less than most options. Any reason I shouldn't jump on this?
Some of the wood-metal matchup doesn't seem as fine as other rifles I've looked at, but the price seems fair and it seems like it could be a good starting point for getting into long rifles.
http://americanlongrifles.org/forum/index.php?topic=49003.0

[rich pierce]

So, here’s the deal: people who post guns here for sale are members.  Is it realistic to expect members to offer critique of what another member has put up for sale?  We are speaking in public here.  Anything but an “awesome deal- jump on it!” would seem awkward at best.

[Cossack]

So, here’s the deal: people who post guns here for sale are members.  Is it realistic to expect members to offer critique of what another member has put up for sale?  We are speaking in public here.  Anything but an “awesome deal- jump on it!” would seem awkward at best.

Of course. Common sense, really. I got excited there and posted without thinking. I'll take my time and do my own research.

[RVAH-7]

Cossack: You've been given a LOT of good advice here. These guys above really know their stuff.  It is summer here in Montana in some places, still some snow in my yard trying to melt but it is shooting season and rendezvous.  You sound antsy to spend your money but heck, go to some shoots, many folks will generously let you shoot their rifle and look, listen, watch, ask and don't get in a hurry.  You've lived this long, so snoop around first.
And if you read the hunting regulations closely, Montana does not have caliber restrictions for rifles, (for the general big game seasons), only in weapon restriction areas ( shotgun, archery, muzzleloader) (.45)  If you lean toward .54, you might be better off if you bump into an elk or draw a moose tag. imho, shooting muzzleloaders is a life-long apprenticeship. Some (many folks) think you have to start with a cap gun and then move up to a flinter. Get a GOOD flintLOCK, learn to make it dependable and you'll never look back.  Just my 2 cents worth. Welcome to the ALR and good luck hunting with a flintlock long rifle.

[Darkhorse]

Based on your requirements and terrain hunted I will suggest you consider. A 42" "C" profile .54 caliber barrel. I hunt with 38" barrels in much thicker terrain but in Montana I'd go for the 42" if only for the longer sighting plane.
I would seriously consider the early lancaster stock. This is an extremely comfortable stock design when shooting heavier charges. You can look at TOW's Issac Haines for a good example of this type stock.
For large game hunting I prefer a tuned single trigger. But if lacking the skills to achieve this for yourself then a set trigger might be a better choice. I have both kinds of triggers and like each one for the purpose I built the rifle.
Maple. Without a doubt Maple. If you go ahead and get a stock with some curl you will be happier with it than if you just get a plain grade A maple stock.

[Mike Brooks]

In general, always remember, you always get exactly what you pay for, and sometimes less.

[flinchrocket]

I spent a few weeks in the southern part of Montana last summer ( north of Cody, Wy). Just looking around at the terrain I would be leaning more to a .58 cal with a 42 or 44 in barrel. I would think a 150 or 200 yd shot would be pretty common.

[Cossack]

I spent a few weeks in the southern part of Montana last summer ( north of Cody, Wy). Just looking around at the terrain I would be leaning more to a .58 cal with a 42 or 44 in barrel. I would think a 150 or 200 yd shot would be pretty common.

I live farther west, near Dillon and Butte. Pretty mountainous with river valleys - not too different from the area north of Cody. Plenty of long shots; however, most of my kills here have been whitetail around the river bottoms, all within 150 yards, and most within 75. Most were offhand shots with a 12ga rifled modern pump shotgun. I'm still leaning towards a .42-44 barrel .54, but I haven't ruled out a 38 incher, since I'm often tromping around the willows, but I like the long sight radius (and looks) of a longer barrel.

I hadn't considered a .58. I don't see too many long rifles in .58. I'm familiar with some around here who use .50 and are happy with it, so my current thought is that if a rifle has all the other features that I like, I won't turn down a rifle that's in .50, but if I find comparable guns in .50 and .54, the edge would go toward the .54.

[smokinbuck]

Cossack,
I know I'm getting into this a little late but, IMHO, you've received more good advice than questionable. Life is not a race, neither is getting your first flintlock. The advice that you should get to a couple of clubs, maybe a rondy, and talk to people who are already into the game is the best advice you have gotten. Try on a few rifles, different styles different barrel lengths and different calibers, folks at the clubs will work with you. Talk to hunters from the area you will be hunting in and hear their experiences. Put all of these things together and then YOU decide what YOU like best, it will be your rifle, not ours.
Mark

[flinchrocket]

I've been eyeballing the Pedersoli line, particularly the "Frontier," which is sold by Cabela's as the "Blue Ridge" for $650 (with free shipping at the moment). I like the lines, the long barrel, and the reviews I've read. I've also been eyeing the Tennesee Valley Muzzleloading "Poor Boy" Tennessee or Southern Rifle, which cost over $400 more. If I can explore this project for less money, I'll prefer to, but I don't want to buy a gun that will just frustrate me (or an ugly gun ).

I would choose non of the above. Save a little more money and buy a plain gun from a noted builder.

Also,9 times out of 10 when you buy a used gun you are just buying someone else's problems.

[Percy]

Cossack,
In addition to barrel length you may also want to consider the overall length of the gun. A 38" barrel will give you an overall gun length approximately 50" to 52" long; 6" longer for a 44" barrel. Assuming that at sometime you will be putting the gun in a vehicle overall length can be a problem.  Percy

[Jim Kibler]

I may be a bit biased, but would suggest our new Colonial kit.  I hesitate with self promotion, but the truth is that you will not find any equal value.  You may find cheaper but the quality difference will far exceed the small price.  We've put tremendous work into our offerings and the difference between our products and others is quite large.  If you should want it assembled we can either help with that in house or direct you to other competant gunsmiths.

Good luck,
Jim

[tddeangelo]

Lancaster vs Bucks—-

You need to handle to know f you are good with a Bucks Rifle.

They can have a narrow/sharp comb. If not fit very well to you, they can hit your cheek pretty good under recoil.

A Lancaster style stock will likely be more forgiving in that regard.

Good luck, and please do post what you finally get! Take your time and enjoy the process!

[Cossack]

Ok, after buying a few books, lots of questions, and discussions with a few makers, I've commissioned a Lancaster rifle in .58 caliber, with a 42 inch barrel, from a professional riflemaker in Virginia, Kent Smith/Augusta Forge. I hope to have some photos up by early July!

Thanks for the advice along the way from all of you.

[Cossack]

I received the rifle this morning: my first impression is that it's a very balanced gun that shoulders and points very naturally and holds very steady.

[rich pierce]

Have a great time on your new flintlock adventure!

[Bob Roller]

I may be a bit biased, but would suggest our new Colonial kit.  I hesitate with self promotion, but the truth is that you will not find any equal value.  You may find cheaper but the quality difference will far exceed the small price.  We've put tremendous work into our offerings and the difference between our products and others is quite large.  If you should want it assembled we can either help with that in house or direct you to other competant gunsmiths.

Good luck,
Jim

 

Jim,
You have FIRST CLASS items to offer and NO reason NOT to promote them.

Bob Roller

[Arcturus]

Congrats, Cossack, you're "in the game" now.  Get out and shoot that rifle and hunt with it, and I bet it won't be your last flintlock. 

I'm a creature of the forest myself, but I like the open-country view off your deck.  Have fun! 

[Cossack]

Congrats, Cossack, you're "in the game" now.  Get out and shoot that rifle and hunt with it, and I bet it won't be your last flintlock. 

I'm a creature of the forest myself, but I like the open-country view off your deck.  Have fun!

Thanks for your comments. I'd much prefer the forest myself, actually. However, a fun thing about the view from my deck that might interest some users of this forum: In the third photo down you can dimly see a bluff in the distance directly above the hammer of the gun. That is Beaverhead Rock, which was an important landmark for Sacagawea during the Lewis and Clark expedition - it let her know that they had come to the summer grounds of the Shoshone. So the expedition (or at least part of it) came right down my valley.

[flinchrocket]

Cossack,that's a nice set-up, how"s it shoot?
     I didn't make it out west this year,but it was interesting that you mentioned Sacagawea.We went through Ft. Washakie on our way back home last year,but wasn't able to find her grave.

[Kynoch]

May want to consider giving a second thought about a smooth bore fowler.  I over looked these for many many years.  As I grew older I realized what I was missing.  Depending on where you live, you can hunt many fall afternoons for doves, quail, squirrel, rabbit, turkey, etc as well as deer with a smoothie. Again, started in Jr. high with cva rifles in .45 and .32. Almost 40 yrs later I discovered flint fowlers.  Still love a rifled barrel, but if I hand only one ml, it may have a smooth bore.  A lot of great advice above, and you can't go wrong.  Just have fun and enjoy.

[Willbarq]

I would go with a Kibler kit in 54 cal.

I second that. Those kits look like they are supposed to...

[Cossack]

Cossack,that's a nice set-up, how"s it shoot?
     I didn't make it out west this year,but it was interesting that you mentioned Sacagawea.We went through Ft. Washakie on our way back home last year,but wasn't able to find her grave.

It shoots just fine - my first three properly rested and aimed shots with 80gr 2f and a .530 Hornady ball were a ragged hole at 30yds. Now I just have to match that performance offhand...but I'm impressed with how solid and steady it feels from just about any shooting position. Golly I like longrifles.

Thanks for the advice regarding smoothbores, Kynoch. My thought now is to start saving money for a kit build down the line, just to try it out, and I think that a fowler would make a logical choice since I now have a squirrel gun and a .54. Then again, I don't always make logical choices...

As for the rifle itself, I can't find any Lancasters that quite match the stock lines, but they remind me more of a James River or maybe Rockbridge, VA rifle, especially with the long wrist and high comb. Any comments on this? Regardless, I think it's a handsome gun and a pleasure to shoot.

[flinchrocket]

Some of the earlier Va rifles particularly in the northern county's resembled the Lancaster because of gunsmiths training in Lancaster then moving down the Shenandoah valley.Also not everyone interprets
things the same.Your rifle reminds me of an early Adam Haymaker Va rifle. Not a bad thing at all.