Refurbishing Files

[WadePatton]

Not much could be easier to find, ready-made and inexpensive at nearly every vendor of groceries anywhere. 5% Acetic Acid -cleverly disguised as White Vinegar- that is.   

TBT here I've picked up another stash of Black Diamonds  out of the rusty crud-stacks of the local antiques stores and have yet to dunk 'em.  Actually used a tri-corner Simonds already that didn't really need much.  But have other things pressing presently.

And I'll keep keeping my eye out for re-workable files from the Age of Domestic Industrial Cyanide.   

Hoarders unite.

[David R. Pennington]

I tried a couple files in vineager. I used cider vineager cause it was cheap. A 14” flat bastard and a 12” half round that were both pretty rough looking and rusty. Both cleaned up real nice. I took a piece of
1 1/2” pvc pipe with one end capped and hung it up by a wire. Put them in there Friday and took them out today  (Monday) and rinsed and scrubbed them. They look real good. I set them in the sun and oiled them good when they got dry

[Bob Roller]

I bought a gallon of new white 5% vinegar yesterday for redoing files.
It seems to work and I have a number of them that need all the help
I can give them.This is done in he shop and not in the house and I was
amazed at the rubbish left after the first batch was done.One was a #8
cut Swiss made thin pillar file.This is a very fine cut and according to the
maker has 233 teeth per inch.

Bob Roller

[smylee grouch]

So is the plan of attack to soak in straight vinegar for a couple of days and then clean and oil?

[WadePatton]

So is the plan of attack to soak in straight vinegar for a couple of days and then clean and oil?

That has worked for me.  Seems that a couple of days is best to see where you're at.  Any sort of pre-cleaning might help speed it up, but I think that just adds work.  I use this for neglected tools too.  Anything I want to de-rust that I can cover in vinegar is game.  I've not "oversoaked" anything that I know of, but have "re-soaked" a few to get them cleaner. 

The black crud that comes off is not unlike the crud that comes off old iron from years underwater. Kinda funky. And yes they'll flash rust pretty quickly if you don't get the oil back on or get them thoroughly dried quickly, but the flash rusting is nothing compared to what usually comes off. 

What have you got to lose? Try some junkers.

[TMerkley]

Wade,

I did Muriatic acid a few years back on some old files and rusty taps,  It worked within seconds but, had to put in oil right away to prevent more rust....  Worked really fast!!!! And really Sharp!!!!

One thing I learned with Working with Muriatic acid.... Once the bubbles stop, then remove the metal... that means the oxidation has been removed. Any time in after that is eating in to the metal itself. 

I have done an old 22 and an old Hawken barrel with a soak once, it was a good dip, however, it left a "greenish" tint to the metal.  I didn't sand the 22 barrel deep enough to remove the "green" however, the Hawken barrel I worked over with emery cloth and cold blue, it turned out dark blue.  Just looking at it, you would think it was factory "hot blue".

[xx54]

I have been keeping up with this post. A while back my cousin mentioned refurbishing wood rasps and files, so I took some out and he soaked them in meuratic acid. They came back very sharp and looked like new. I couldn't believe that this made them usable again. I have noticed fish hooks that I have purchased before said " they were chemically sharpened". So anyone interested might try this.

[PPatch]

Okay, I bit the bullet and tried 10 files in the vinegar treatment, they soaked for a little over two days, and were turned over twice. When I removed them mid morning I scrubbed them with a steel brush, there was loads of "stuff" that remained in the vinegar. I then flushed them at an outdoor spicket and immediately dried them with shop towels and then my heat gun, and sprayed them with WD-40. I could see that flash rust beginning to form as I put the heat gun to them.

I tested one 8" file this afternoon and it cut better than it had been. Which is not bad at all as the files were, in my mind, goners and had been sitting in the back of my file drawer for ages.

Wade; it works. Thanks man.

dave

[WadePatton]

I bought a gallon of new white 5% vinegar yesterday for redoing files.
It seems to work ...This is a very fine cut and according to the
maker has 233 teeth per inch.

Bob Roller

Bob I'm especially happy to have shared something new with a fellow who has seen so much (and has helped me/others with his vast knowledge). And certainly it's the odd or expensive (or just "good old hard" files) that make this such a good one.

Okay, I bit the bullet and tried 10 files in the vinegar treatment... not bad at all as the files were, in my mind, goners and had been sitting in the back of my file drawer for ages.

Wade; it works. Thanks man.

dave

Dave/all, It's great to "give back" a little. So many various "new" and otherwise things in our constant stream of info overload these days, that I'm happy to have struck on something that a few of us can really put to the test, particularly given the removal of cyanide from steel processing.

Sure, with regard to some comments on other chemical processing and processing services: These have been around for some time-but one may have to either source the "new" chemical and learn how to use it safely. Or he'll have to package and post and pay and wait for any remote service (or deliver/retrieve if local).  With the Acetic Acid treatment there is: No packing, no shipping, nothing you can't make pickles with, not much waiting, and you can watch the bubbles if your "vat" permits it (can see the foam at the very least).  Can be a touch messy, but most serious file-users can deal with it. 

Also that vinegar has been around some great time and has a history of being home-made.  Not to fail to mention that Iron Acetate is used by some to stain their wooden bits and stocks. And one who refurbs his files this way shall have no shortage of Iron Acetate. 

I tend to pour the clear liquid off, dump the sludge and reuse the clear part, adding fresh vinegar as necessary. I know this dilutes the acidity, but that hasn't been an issue so far and of course once can re-soak if necessary.

I've not fooled with iron acetate and wood for a while, but ain't above it...

[Mauser06]

I finally got around to trying it on my chest of old files. 


I bought 3 gallons of vinegar and put them all in a 5 gallon bucket.  Should have bought 4 gallons...lol.


I took a batch out after 3 days and the difference is incredible.  I still have a lot of them in there that were a little worse off but seem to be cleaning up nicely. 

Surprisingly, they aren't all the same stitch like I thought.  Have a pretty nice variety. 2 knife style files for screw heads...a bunch of small rounds and triangles.  Even found a real nice riffler. 

Seems junk tools weren't common or maybe not even on the market when this guy collected his files. All good old Nicholson's, some Simmonds, some American made ones I've never heard of...a couple marked "Austria" which seem like they are quality as well. A few dollars in the chest full of files and another few bucks in vinegar and I have plenty of usable files.


They are coming out much sharper than new Nicholsons. 

[WadePatton]

Giving new life to old tools is handy and helps getter dunn.

Kinda hard to grasp the transformation until you do it.  Makes the junk bins (at the junk store, as well as our own) more interesting for sure. Glad I could help spread this practical knowhow.   

[J Henry]

    I was/am wondering,would this rust remover work on a rusted barrel or lock!!

[Greg Pennell]

I don’t see why not. I’ve done a couple batches of files so far, and it’s an absolute miracle. I’ve cleaned up some rusty pliers and a vintage pair of Wiss tin snips that were so rusty they wouldn’t move...after a week or so in vinegar they came out nearly perfect.  A little paint on the handles, and they’re good to go for another 50 years. I have several more old tools soaking right now...

Greg

[WadePatton]

    I was/am wondering,would this rust remover work on a rusted barrel or lock!!

It's my experience that whatever melts away in the process was oxidized beyond repair/recognition anyway. I've never (yet) put anything in the vinegar and later regretted it. 

Acetic acid is my go to for anything rusty, period. I found a hammer that'd been lost under as house where water had been standing long enough to cause black mold. Rusty as heck.  Two or three days in the soak and now a have a gray hammer with some rough spots, but no nasty rust-and I used it today or yesterday. It's an Estwing. 

If something is rusted up, you ain't going to hurt it with vinegar, of that I'm about certain. You'll likely help it.  And it beats the doggie doo out of trying to clean rust up with a wire wheel or higher-tech buffing apparatus. 

There may be better easier chemical concoctions, but there are none cheaper or lower toxicity. 

Also, I'm not affiliated with Big Vinegar and I paid regular money for my supply. 

[rmnc3r]

Thread Resurrection.

One of my CV19 keep busy projects for the moment is resurrecting old files and this thread. 

How many treatments can a file undergo before becoming useless for filing, but good knife-making scrap?

[WadePatton]

Thread Resurrection.

One of my CV19 keep busy projects for the moment is resurrecting old files and this thread. 

How many treatments can a file undergo before becoming useless for filing, but good knife-making scrap?

This I do not know yet. I've not been doing a lot of filing lately.  I did note that I was using the first ever file I tried this treatment on a few days ago. It is notable because it is was deeply pitted in a few places, and the voids of the pits are felt, but the re-furbed teeth are yet cutting like a fresh file.

I should mark them--and I might when I run any a second time.  Good question.

[yulzari]

Just to simplify things. All acids will remove rust. Some in seconds and then eat the steel and some in days. Muriatic acid (i.e. hydrochloric acid), acetic acid, citric acid, oxalic acid and so forth. The speed depends upon the dilution and the temperature. This is a chemical reaction and that speeds up with temperature.

There is no correct choice but one should think of time and supervision. If you are in a hurry then go strong and short but you have some risk of it going too far and working on the steel. I recommend weak and slow then you can supervise it's progress. I can get acetic acid (vinegar) from 5% to 14% in the supermarket. Also citric acid crystals and oxalic acid crystals cheaply there too. 5% vinegar does the trick quite adequately. I choose oxalic acid which will not take off any steel at all no matter how long you forget and leave it in there plus other minor reasons but is toxic and attractive to pets. Especially dogs (and you if you keep drinking it....) Citric acid leaves it cleaner and I have been known to put parts de rusted with oxalic into citric for a bit to clean them up.

So 5% vinegar is quite adequate and cheap so is the simplest solution. With muriatic(hydrochloric) acid there is a hazard of it being able to become dangerously (to you) strong. Oxalic has a poisoning risk by ingestion but citric is safe and cheap and cleaner than acetic so is a second simple choice.

BTW it would do no harm to neutralise the remaining acid when the steel is removed from de rusting by both washing it with running water and sitting in a weal sodium bicarbonate/baking soda solution for a few minutes before drying with heat and oiling.

Apologies for the lecture mode......

[WadePatton]

Despite my references to that first, rusty and pitted file, I have revived files that were not rusty. That's my main focus of this thread, making old-tired files (not necessarily rusty ones) work better-to extend their functional life as files (of course this bunch (or their pals) make/s tools from them after they've given up the ghost for removing metal.)

I will be neutralizing them hereafter as I've noticed a touch more after-rust than I care for, yet they still cut better.

Yulzari (or anyone else fluent in acid/metal reactions): Could we not weaken other acids to a comparable level as the 5% acetic or would that not be so simple? I have some drain-clearing acids that I have no use for as I much prefer lye for that job.

[Oil Derek]

I like lecture mode yulzari, thanks.

I want to thank all who contributed to this thread, as it has been very useful to me. I collected up all the file and rasps I could find that were quite neglected and gave them a 5% vinegar bath about a month ago. Results were shockingly good. Some revealed minor areas of deep pitting though.

Great question rmnc3r. Sorry now that I pitched some totally rusted files about two years ago that might have been rehab candidates or at least usable for knives.

[J Henry]

  If you  need to sharpen a rasp,do you have a belt sander??  ,turn it on it and carefully,lightly place the rasp on the moving belt,if the rasp has a rounded face rotate the rasp with very light pressure,this will sharpen the points on the teeth.Works great.

[yulzari]

Despite my references to that first, rusty and pitted file, I have revived files that were not rusty. That's my main focus of this thread, making old-tired files (not necessarily rusty ones) work better-to extend their functional life as files (of course this bunch (or their pals) make/s tools from them after they've given up the ghost for removing metal.)

I will be neutralizing them hereafter as I've noticed a touch more after-rust than I care for, yet they still cut better.

Yulzari (or anyone else fluent in acid/metal reactions): Could we not weaken other acids to a comparable level as the 5% acetic or would that not be so simple? I have some drain-clearing acids that I have no use for as I much prefer lye for that job.

In principle yes but I can't answer for what is a suitable level of dilution. Start very weak and see how it goes then change it based upon what you see. I am guessing your acid is hydrochloric or sulphuric so read the instructions to see what safety advice they give. Until you have a safe level eye protection is in order. You can grow/graft new skin but not eyes.

[JohnN]

There is a video on YouTube about doing files in sulfuric acid ( drain cleaner) .

[PIKELAKE]

I use muriatic acid to kind of renew files. You have to keep an eye on them time wise. I don't believe the acid can sharpen them but merely etches them and cleans all the $#@* off of them. They all seem to cut better after this treatment at least for a while.  JZ

[WadePatton]

And back to vinegar. I think I'll just keep using 5% acetic acid because works so well, and poses no extra hazards to anyone or anything.  Thanks just the same for the info.