Author Topic: obtaining pattern?  (Read 2365 times)

mupperm

  • Guest
obtaining pattern?
« on: July 06, 2018, 12:50:34 AM »
i am wanting to build an Ohio style rifle,  is the Vincent style,  the only thing out there commercially available, pattern wise?


Offline Chowmi

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 843
Re: obtaining pattern?
« Reply #1 on: July 06, 2018, 02:26:24 AM »
Track of the wolf has plans for a Vincent Ohio rifle.

Norm
Cheers,
Chowmi

NMLRA
CLA

galudwig

  • Guest
Re: obtaining pattern?
« Reply #2 on: July 06, 2018, 02:31:41 AM »
Chowmi was quick on the draw, but here's the link to the plans.
https://www.trackofthewolf.com/Categories/PartDetail.aspx/1010/3/PLAN-VINCENT

So many of the Ohio rifles have the back action locks that just have no appeal to me whatsoever. Here is a classy one though by James Teafe from Jefferson Co., Ohio. No commercial plans available, but it is reminiscent of a Vincent. You could probably modify the Vincent plans easily enough to get close. I'd really like to duplicate this one some day...



You may also want to look through the Association of Ohio Long Rifle Collectors site (AOLRC).  They have a collection of past bulletins that feature Ohio makers and their guns.  Pictures are not that great, but that's where I found the Teafe rifle.

http://www.aolrc.com
« Last Edit: July 06, 2018, 02:47:03 AM by galudwig »

Offline FALout

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 875
Re: obtaining pattern?
« Reply #3 on: July 06, 2018, 02:32:20 AM »
I know what you mean.  I know thru family genealogy that my relatives went thru Ohio before going westward, but it wasn’t till vacationing there that I wanted to buildan Ohio styled rifle.  I stopped at the Log Cabin and bought a few items, one of them being “Ohio Gunsmiths & Allied Tradesmen”.  I’m unaware if there are better resource material.   From what I’ve seen, the rifles varied quite a bit.  I’ve started a half stock .45cal with a maple blank stock.  I have some ideas of what I want, I’m not gonna copy a single example, but will take from different sources.  Good luck on your search, maybe some folks can help both of us out.
Bob

Offline heinz

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1158
Re: obtaining pattern?
« Reply #4 on: July 06, 2018, 02:51:14 AM »
mupper.  I am not sure what you mean by "pattern wise"  If you mean blueprint, the Vincent is readily available.  If you mean a general style there are a range of Ohio styles.  Donald Hutzler did a series of books on Ohio Gunsmiths.  There are a couple of Ohio guns in Kindigs "golden Age' book.  There was a pronounced style in Cincinnati in the percussion period, another around Columbus.  Southeastern Ohio welcomed a number of eastward migrating Pa. gunsmiths and produced some Pa school guns.  Samuel Hawkin worked in Ohio before going to St. Louis.  So you have a wide canvass to work on and a number of people on this board to help you.
If you live within a half-day ride of the Log Cabin Gun Shop in Lodi you should go there.  They can help you out a lot.
« Last Edit: July 06, 2018, 02:54:16 AM by heinz »
kind regards, heinz

Offline SingleMalt

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 613
  • One day I'll be considered a good builder.
Re: obtaining pattern?
« Reply #5 on: July 06, 2018, 03:30:41 AM »
Curtis recently built a half stock Ohio rifle.  Contact him by PM.
Never drink whisky that isn't old enough to vote.

"The penalty good men pay for indifference to public affairs is to be ruled by evil men."- Plato

"The Constitution shall never be construed to prevent the people of the United States who are peaceable citizens from keeping their own arms."

Offline Chowmi

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 843
Re: obtaining pattern?
« Reply #6 on: July 06, 2018, 06:21:23 AM »
i am wanting to build an Ohio style rifle,  is the Vincent style,  the only thing out there commercially available, pattern wise?

Ahhh,
I see that I mis-read the question. Sorry. Thought you were looking specifically for Vincent.
Wish I could help with the rest, but cannot.

Norm.
Cheers,
Chowmi

NMLRA
CLA

Offline Gaeckle

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1361
Re: obtaining pattern?
« Reply #7 on: July 06, 2018, 05:19:56 PM »
Ohio rifles have such a wide variety of styles. To truly appreciate this variety you really need to look at the books "Ohio Gunsmiths and Allied Tradesmen" as was suggested by FALout. Ohio guns have a distinct taste of regionalism: you will find different styles in the northeast by Toledo, different styles in and around Columbus, different flavors by areas that border the Ohio river, different styles yet again on the south west border.

If you want to build a good representative Ohio style rifle the only pre-carve available is the Vincent, however, you could use a Lehman and modify it to create a generic style and call it Ohio. Truly, you need to build from a blank, pay attention to the buttplate shape, the trigger guard shape, shape of inlays, shape of patchbox or capbox if you decide to add that. Other differences can be found in the shape of the cheeckpiece (some guns have a cheeckpiece on both sides) lock shape, the nose of the comb....there are a lot of subtleties between styles and that kinda makes the building of these things fun.

Unfortunately, the available castings for buttplates and guards are pretty poor. Basically, they are too small to accommodate today's triggers and the space between spurs are too small. The solution is to find old originals and put them to use, but again, you will find, thru study, a very wide variety between guard types.....

From what I understand, the Ohio Association of Long Rifles will have a table at the CLA....and if you really want to get a leg up on your build, call the Log Cabin and ask for Tom, he is the president of the OALR, he can set you up with a lot of good options.

Good luck on your build!

mupperm

  • Guest
Re: obtaining pattern?
« Reply #8 on: July 07, 2018, 01:11:29 AM »
thanks for all the replies so far, I did visit the log Cabin shop last week, and I seen many excellent examples.  i was just curious if there was something other than a Vincent.  " with that in mind has anyone ever seen a Vincent Flinter"?
« Last Edit: July 07, 2018, 01:26:37 AM by mupperm »

Steve-In

  • Guest
Re: obtaining pattern?
« Reply #9 on: July 07, 2018, 02:00:20 AM »
Pecatonic river has an Ohio.
http://www.longrifles-pr.com/ohio.shtml

Offline Craig Wilcox

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2532
Re: obtaining pattern?
« Reply #10 on: July 07, 2018, 03:31:18 AM »
Mupperm, I for one would not mind building one of the Pecatonic "Ohio" kits - with the caveat that I would want to put a flint lock on it instead of the percussion,

Looks like a pretty sweet half-stocker.

Good luck with your project, whatever it happens to be.  You will find TONS of support on these forums in ALR.
Craig Wilcox
We are all elated when Dame Fortune smiles at us, but remember that she is always closely followed by her daughter, Miss Fortune.

galudwig

  • Guest
Re: obtaining pattern?
« Reply #11 on: July 07, 2018, 04:11:26 AM »
thanks for all the replies so far, I did visit the log Cabin shop last week, and I seen many excellent examples.  i was just curious if there was something other than a Vincent.  " with that in mind has anyone ever seen a Vincent Flinter"?

There is one in the Campus Maritus museum in Marietta, Ohio.







Some say it's authentic, some say not. I'm no expert on Vincent guns, but I want to believe this one is legit.

Offline Goo

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 708
Re: obtaining pattern?
« Reply #12 on: July 07, 2018, 03:16:24 PM »
Call the " Log Cabin shop " in Lodi  Ohio they have some different ones on the wall.  This is just an idea/suggestion talk to them see what they say about patterns.   There also an Ohio gun collector group that does a show around the Newark area once a year.    I don't have the specifics so youll need to look it up on google.
Opinions are expensive. Rich people rarely if ever voice their opinion.

Offline Gaeckle

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1361
Re: obtaining pattern?
« Reply #13 on: July 07, 2018, 04:26:37 PM »
There will be a class held at the Log Cabin soon, if you live close enough the class may be something you may want to engage in. Next time you are at the Log Cabin ask to see the rifle by Valentine Shuler, (hope I spelled that right). That is another style with a lot of interesting features.

Offline Majorjoel

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3138
Re: obtaining pattern?
« Reply #14 on: July 07, 2018, 07:48:33 PM »
Here are a few pics of my favorite Ohio makers work.  Jacob S. Palmer did some nice work in a later period that kept much of the tradition alive!   http://www.historicalarms.com/antique-guns-swords-artifacts-for-sale/4569.html
Joel Hall

Offline smokinbuck

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3005
Re: obtaining pattern?
« Reply #15 on: July 08, 2018, 12:09:25 AM »
I collect Ohio rifles and have assembled 30-40 of them by different builders. Almost every builder had a distinct style and very few reproduced others work. Our books on Ohio Gunsmths & Allied Tradesmen show a great many examples. The books will be available at the CLA or I can supply them. There are currently 5 volumes at $35 each plus shipping or $135 plus shipping for the set.
Mark
Mark

Offline Scota4570

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2398
Re: obtaining pattern?
« Reply #16 on: July 08, 2018, 03:03:43 AM »
If you do decide to use Track parts, be aware that the but plate is for smaller armed folks to shoot off the bicep. For me, the but plate was not useable.  The radius was too small.  My bench pressing days are long past too.

 https://www.trackofthewolf.com/Categories/PartDetail.aspx/682/1/BP-VINC-1-B

I do think the flintlock idea is intriguing.  Reliability wise, I have poor lock with cap guns that use a drum.  Using a liner and a very late, highly refined flintlock would be more reliable, in my hands. 
« Last Edit: July 08, 2018, 03:06:29 AM by Scota4570 »

Offline Curtis

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2338
  • Missouri
Re: obtaining pattern?
« Reply #17 on: July 08, 2018, 07:35:07 AM »
Mupperm,

Sorry I am late to the game, I just now read through the post.  As Singlemalt mentioned, I recently built a couple of Ohio style rifles.  Both were based on the Track Vincent plan.  A few modifications were made to each, the fullstock was drawn out by basically extending the nosecap area out to the length of the barrel.  Here are some links for you:



http://americanlongrifles.org/forum/index.php?topic=45254.msg444156#msg444156





http://americanlongrifles.org/forum/index.php?topic=48647.msg481383#msg481383

Hope the links help some.  I did a build-along posting for the halfstock, which can be found here:

http://americanlongrifles.org/forum/index.php?topic=47395.msg467568#msg467568

Curtis
« Last Edit: July 09, 2018, 06:54:15 AM by Curtis »
Curtis Allinson
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Sometimes, late at night when I am alone in the inner sanctum of my workshop and no one else can see, I sand things using only my fingers for backing

mupperm

  • Guest
Re: obtaining pattern?
« Reply #18 on: July 08, 2018, 02:55:46 PM »
thanks Curtis, very informative...