Author Topic: hawken flintlock style (Read 4259 times)

poppy · « **on:** July 23, 2018, 01:55:34 AM »

need opinions on using a davis common rifle lock for a fullstock hawken . the plate would need rounded on the tail also the cock would need some shaping ; any ideas here. chris popp

David Rase · « **Reply #1 on:** July 23, 2018, 02:26:19 AM »

I would advise not to use the Davis common lock for a Hawken. I just used that lock on a Harpers Ferry and spent a bunch of hours getting it to work proper. Never again. I started a Hawken full stock about a year ago. I have never been a fan of the L&R lock for a Hawken. It is a good lock, I just don't like the looks of it. I modified the plate of a Chambers late Ketland for my full stock Hawken build and liked the results very much, both in looks and function.
David

poppy · « **Reply #2 on:** July 23, 2018, 02:42:20 AM »

thanks david that's what I need to know . on the picture of your hawken is that a screw in the forward part of the trigger guard. chris popp

D. Taylor Sapergia · « **Reply #3 on:** July 23, 2018, 03:10:22 AM »

The forward screw of a Hawken trigger guard is a stud that is usually threaded 1/4 x 28 tpi. I suspect David has installed such a screw, but in this image, the extension out into the bow is not dressed off. This screw is integral with the guard, and screws into the trigger plate by revolving the guard. It's an interesting project to get the timing right so that the guard bottoms against the trigger plate while coming to the end of it's travel and in line with the axis of the gun.

David has done a superlative job getting that lock suitable for a flint Hawken! I wish there was such a lock without the bevel - just flat.

David Rase · « **Reply #4 on:** July 23, 2018, 03:11:17 AM »

Quote from: poppy on July 23, 2018, 02:42:20 AM

thanks david that's what I need to know . on the picture of your hawken is that a screw in the forward part of the trigger guard. chris popp

Yes,
The stud on the triggerguard casting had a flaw in it and when I went to tap the threads the stud snapped off. The screw was temporary until I could weld it in and file it flush.
David

DICKH · « **Reply #5 on:** July 23, 2018, 03:52:08 AM »

Poppy
This is off your topic but I thought you might like to know I have a ww ll German pistol.

The holster has the name Popp scratched on it in two places.

Richard Henderson

poppy · « **Reply #6 on:** July 23, 2018, 04:27:30 AM »

yeah, Richard that's cool; my ancestors came from south germany in the 1830s. David on the last hawken I built I missdrilled the trigger plate ,and had to engineer a solution. Taylor your posts on hawken building have helped me considerably thank you. chris popp

Herb · « **Reply #7 on:** July 23, 2018, 06:24:57 AM »

I don't know what a Davis common lock is.

Gunnermike · « **Reply #8 on:** July 23, 2018, 09:09:44 AM »

The Davis common lock looks like the Harper's Ferry 1803 rifle lock with a slightly altered tail & no date, eagle or armory stampings:

the 1803 HF lock:

Mike

Bob Roller · « **Reply #9 on:** July 23, 2018, 04:22:46 PM »

In the 70' and into the 1980's I made a Ketland lock with parts from Jerry DeVaudreuil
of Wooster Ohio.They were in the status of a requested item and back then the attitude was
"If it's for a muzzle loader it's gotta be cheap". It was a good,fast firing lock and I made the last
one for myself in 2008 to finish a project I had bought for a small price.Those parts had laid in a
drawer for 35 years. I don't know if they're available now or not but if someone wanted to make it
and take the time to do it right it would be an addition to what's now available.
Jerry' parts numbers are:

G 150 Ketland plate
G 149 frizzen
G 167 hammer or cock
G 15 MASLIN top jaw
G 187 frizzen spring
He may also have internal parts from the Chet Shoults Ketland that might work
but I can't say for sure about that.

Bob Roller

Osprey · « **Reply #10 on:** July 23, 2018, 06:31:43 PM »

Is it just me or is the most shocking thing in this thread the detailed bevels on Rase' wood working 'flint' in that lock?! I always just shove an old chunk of wood in the jaws, I feel even more inferior now...

D. Taylor Sapergia · « **Reply #11 on:** July 23, 2018, 07:10:11 PM »

I wish there was such a lock without the bevel - just flat.

I was referring not to the wooden flint but to the bevels on the edges of the lock plate. I cannot say I've ever seen a Hawken lock that had bevels.

rich pierce · « **Reply #12 on:** July 23, 2018, 07:14:07 PM »

D. Taylor Sapergia · « **Reply #13 on:** July 23, 2018, 07:17:02 PM »

Rich: the top lock has a minor bevel along the edges, but the other two demonstrate what I was talking about.

Bob Roller · « **Reply #14 on:** July 23, 2018, 07:19:59 PM »

Quote from: D. Taylor Sapergia on July 23, 2018, 07:10:11 PM

I wish there was such a lock without the bevel - just flat.

I was referring not to the wooden flint but to the bevels on the edges of the lock plate. I cannot say I've ever seen a Hawken lock that had bevels.

Who really knows what a flintlock Hawken looked like.Bob Woodfill's
article a few months ago depicted a military style much more than a sporting rifle
with a musket lock.There have been some very good looking modern speculations
made with percussion hardware on a flintlock full stock but that's all they were,good
looking speculations.

rich pierce · « **Reply #15 on:** July 23, 2018, 07:46:14 PM »

We can use other plains rifles of the period to make a good realistic Hawken flintlock. The middle lock above (originally flint) is on a gun with a Hawken stamp on the barrel.

David Rase · « **Reply #16 on:** July 23, 2018, 10:28:18 PM »

Quote from: Osprey on July 23, 2018, 06:31:43 PM

Is it just me or is the most shocking thing in this thread the detailed bevels on Rase' wood working 'flint' in that lock?! I always just shove an old chunk of wood in the jaws, I feel even more inferior now...

Sometimes, when I feel really anal, I make my wooden flints out of ebony.

Bob Roller · « **Reply #17 on:** July 23, 2018, 11:28:53 PM »

I have never seen a beveled Hawken styled CAPLOCK but who knows what kind of locks they used if they even
built a St.Louis flintlock. I have a set of Ketland parts,plate,frizzen,cock,top jaw and frizzen spring and the plate
has a very small fluting following the outer contour.Looks good.

Bob Roller

Osprey · « **Reply #18 on:** July 25, 2018, 12:06:52 AM »

Quote from: David Rase on July 23, 2018, 10:28:18 PM

Quote from: Osprey on July 23, 2018, 06:31:43 PM
Is it just me or is the most shocking thing in this thread the detailed bevels on Rase' wood working 'flint' in that lock?! I always just shove an old chunk of wood in the jaws, I feel even more inferior now...
Sometimes, when I feel really anal, I make my wooden flints out of ebony.

You gotta try making one of Unobtanium!

Bob Roller · « **Reply #19 on:** July 25, 2018, 12:16:22 AM »

Quote from: Osprey on July 25, 2018, 12:06:52 AM

Quote from: David Rase on July 23, 2018, 10:28:18 PM
Quote from: Osprey on July 23, 2018, 06:31:43 PM
Is it just me or is the most shocking thing in this thread the detailed bevels on Rase' wood working 'flint' in that lock?! I always just shove an old chunk of wood in the jaws, I feel even more inferior now...
Sometimes, when I feel really anal, I make my wooden flints out of ebony.

You gotta try making one of Unobtanium!

I tied unobtanium and it made green sparks that were cold.

Bob Roller

smylee grouch · « **Reply #20 on:** July 25, 2018, 12:47:19 AM »

With the conversation about the bevel on the late Ketland lock I'm wondering if a guy could weld a bead around the lock plate, and dress it down to a smooth surface. Would that work and if it did would it brown up with the rest of the lock plate? Just a thought or maybe I wonder too much.

poppy · « **Reply #21 on:** July 25, 2018, 02:47:22 AM »

you all need to look at the Philip creamer rifle lock, it has a bevel. chris popp.

RAT · « **Reply #22 on:** July 25, 2018, 05:09:28 AM »

Here's a percussion Hawken. David makes a similar lock in both percussion and flint.

I wish Chambers made a gunsmith's version of the late ketland with the forged-on pan. Then we could shape it however we like, with or without a bevel.

RAT · « **Reply #23 on:** July 25, 2018, 05:10:37 AM »

Excuse the typo... "Davis" not "David"... as in R. E. Davis.

rich pierce · « **Reply #24 on:** July 25, 2018, 06:01:37 AM »

Quote from: poppy on July 25, 2018, 02:47:22 AM

you all need to look at the Philip creamer rifle lock, it has a bevel. chris popp.

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Author Topic: hawken flintlock style (Read 4259 times)

DICKH