Barrel Help Needed

[rangermurphy]

So I used LMF Barrel Brown & Degreaser.

Used a hot box.   All appeared OK.  Wiped it down with ammonia.  Used new oil and heated it and the Barrel looked nice.

Fast forward 3 months and all but the first 3 inches of the Barrel developed serious surface rusting.  Was like sand on the surface.

Sanded off the finish (I thought) and draw filed the worst spots, then put on some Oxpho Blue (used it on a few of my newer guns)

But it still came back.  Any suggestions?  Rust converter, belt sand this thing down?

[Dave B]

I know that i have had a tough time in the beginning shutting down the rusting of the LMF browning solution. I used a baking soda i solution and scrubbed the barrel with oooo steel wool. Dried the barrel and oiled it up with motor oil and scrubbed it in with the 0000 steel wool and did the oil treatment again in a week or so. That took care of it.

[flehto]

Had this happen one time yrs ago because the "rust" was way too heavy. On all the other bbls I used ammonia to satisfactorly neutralize but on this heavily rusted bbl the ammonia couldn't penetrate and therefore didn't neutralize the brown. ....in spite of all my efforts.

My solution because I didn't like the heavy rust was to start over  and after the final draw filing  realized that it wasn't that big a job......the "new" brown came out fine and was neutralized by the  ammonia. ....Fred

[Eric Krewson]

I did my normal every few months check of my longrifles and found a squirrel rifle with some rust on the last 6" of the barrel. This is the same rifle I posted when I made it that I couldn't get the rusting to stop after LMF.

After plenty of carding,neutralizing and oil the rusting appeared to stop after a couple of weeks.

I carded the new rust, oiled, and then gave the area a coat of barricade. The rusting was minor but visible both on the top and bottom of the barrel, I was surprised to see it after such a long time.

[rangermurphy]

I see there are now many, many tiny pits.  Like needle points all over it.

[rangermurphy]

How do I at this late stage stop the rusting process?

[porchdog48]

I had the same problem on the last two barrels. I first applied baking soda then a couple of days later barrel was covered with rust. I then did the bake soda 2 more times still didn't stop rust so start applying amonia which took 5 coat before rust stopped. I have used LMF for years and this is the first time I have had this problem.

[Mr. Bubbles]

I think you really need to scrub that baking soda (or what ever you use) in there so that it gets in to the little pits of the LMF.  AEn even more basic solution would be lye, but that stuff can be dangerous if you make your concentrations really potent.  Lye burns can be worse than acid burns, and that stuff can blind you if it gets in your eyes.

[Craig Wilcox]

Lye, Sodium or potassium hydroxide is extremely basic, pH is way up there in the 12-14 range.  Baking Soda - Arm &Hammer stuff sold in the supermarket, is about pH neutral, around 7'  Pure nitric or sulfuric is way low - acidic - around pH 1-2 range.  I have not tested LMF Barrel browner/degreaser, but it is probably in the 4-5 range.

So you want to avoid extremely high or low pH if possible.  And to neutralize the acid of LMF browner, use either household ammonia, pH 8-9, or baking soda, pH neutral.

If it were I, and having lost all the skin on both hands at one time, once with sulfuric, and once with nitric (slow learner!), I would first apply some household ammonia, even the "sudsy" kind, then dissolve some baking soda in warm water, and scrub thoroughly with it.  That SHOULD neutralize the LMF.

Good luck with the process - it does make a lovely barrel in the end.

[Dphariss]

So I used LMF Barrel Brown & Degreaser.

Used a hot box.   All appeared OK.  Wiped it down with ammonia.  Used new oil and heated it and the Barrel looked nice.

Fast forward 3 months and all but the first 3 inches of the Barrel developed serious surface rusting.  Was like sand on the surface.

Sanded off the finish (I thought) and draw filed the worst spots, then put on some Oxpho Blue (used it on a few of my newer guns)

But it still came back.  Any suggestions?  Rust converter, belt sand this thing down?

Did you ever wash it well with warm water  or water and dissolved baking soda? BEFORE it was oiled. Remembering that ammonia is not iron/steel friendly either nor are most soaps. I always used water and/or soda and water to kill any acid. Oil? What oil? Vegetable oils are often acidic and will not help kill off any remaining acid. Linseed oil,  for example, as bought from the store is acidic and needs to be neutralized for use as stock finish.  Synthetic motor oils like the better grades of Amsoil have a high base number, 12 generally, and will neutralize acids (all good motor oils have a certain ability to neutralize acid since its a by product of the engine's operation). I don't know what stage you took the rusting to. However, if you let the rust scale and/or get thick its very difficult to get the acid out of the rust. If a full stock did you use an acid stain on the wood? Was it too acidic and not neutralized in some way?
If you let the metal pit to the point you can see them then you have little places for corrosive elements the "hide" and the solution was too aggressive or was left on too long before carding.
I would be tempted to plug the bore put it in a piece PVC pipe full of warm soda water for an hour or or more....

Dan

[davec2]

If there is after rusting, there must be some moisture trapped in the surface rust.  After neutralizing with a slurry of baking soda and water (with a good scrubbing with a nail brush), I rinse the barrel with water, mechanically dry it with a clean cloth, and then heat it with a heat gun until the whole barrel is really too hot to touch.  You will probably see moisture being driven out of the browned surface that you thought was dry.  Let it cool down and watch it for a day or two to see if any more surface rust forms.  Unless you live in a very humid environment, you probably won't.  If more rust forms, heat the barrel again, rub off the surface rust with a piece of denim or burlap and let it sit again.  When there is no more rusting going on, I warm the barrel again and apply wax or oil.

[Huntschool]

Though I have never used LMF stuff I have browned/rusted a ton of barrels. My final process after all the carding etc was done, like davec2 above.  I would wipe the barrel with distilled water.  Let it room dry and then use a propane torch (didn't have a fancy heat gun back then) and setting the barrel vertical in a vice start at the breech heating the barrel.  I could see the moisture coming out.  Once the barrel was completely worked over like this I would start at the top (muzzle end) and heat it pretty good with the torch working down the barrel applying a very thin mixture of turpentine and linseed oil. (Keep the applicator away from the flame..... Duh.)

Knock on wood, I don't think I ever remember having rust show up again.  I learned this method from and old gentleman back in the early 80's in a discussion at Friendship.  Truth is it was a group discussion as I remember and I have no idea who he was.