sights for chunk

[Daryl]

Further note about our chunk testing yesterday - it's certainly a different type of shooting, that's for sure.

  I started off using my 'express-type" sights, round bead on the front, wide V at the back.  After the heat came up in the barrel, I switched to narrow V with a silver blade. We were both using shaders so the sights looked great.  Getting the proper 'spotter' target might be a hassle.  With the bead front, the spotter target I supplied with the chuck targets was a good one, but not so good with a blade. A solid black circle or black square would be better for blade front sights - I found this out myself.

 Part way through the shooting, I changed sights, putting on the black and narrow V notch sights. My shooting immediatly went down hill - horrible pattern-type groups. I changed the target to a round black but still couldn't get groups I as happy with - they wer more like patterns.

  I switched the sights back to the bead and wide V and then started shooting well again, but couldn't hold better than an inch group for 6 or 7 shots. I guess that will have to do.  The ringed 'spotter' works well as the bead covers the inner black rings, leaving a single ring of black halo'd around the bead. This seems to work for me the best.

  The trouble I ad with the blade, was getting the correct amount of light between the bull and the front sight.  Coupled with this, I was having trouble agan with too much fuzziness around the read V notch.  It's Plenty wide enough for lots of light, but I still couldn't see it very well.  My eye-sight sees  the Express-type sights much better.

[ironwolf]

  I know what you mean about the 'pattern' groups.  It's still amazing to me, how different sights can bend and distort light the way they do.  I guess that's the beauty of testing. 
  I've got an offhand gun in the works and plan on using your  "Wide V and Bead"  combination, Daryl.  I'm not sure if I could benefit from an additional blade.  The gun will be used primarily at 25, 50 and 100 Yds.  I guess I could set the flip up for the long shot and split the difference on the close targets with the fixed blade.

  YMHS, Kevin

[Daryl]

Kevin - One idea of the ears of the shallow V, is they give the 100 yard zero with the bead held in the middle, between the points.
; Another is the wide V doesn't give the fuzziness or haziness of a deep knoth sight with aging eyes.  At least that's what I find. Too, the front sight, whether it's a blade of bear, gets a fuzziness around it. With a bead, you know the centre of the bead is the point of impact- where there is no hazziness.  With a blade, the fuzzy top surface is indistinct, making p[oint of impact a guessing game. That's my theory and I'm sitcking to it - for now.

[Roger Fisher]

I use a sq top post frt sight and a sq notch rear with a flat top - no horny horns

With shaders frt and rear.  My spotter is a black/black square on white/white paper for the contrast.  My black square is abt the same with of the frt blade in its sight picture.   Now then at my age my problem is when the top of the frt blade approaches the 6/0'clock line on that black block.  Then that line fuzzes out.  I am thinking of going to a white/white square on black/black paper  for a spotter.  I may then lose the frt blade top in the black area  of the spotter. I tried such a spotter q few years ago and discarded that idea when I went to the black square..  I intend to post 2 spotters side by side one of each and see what the old eyes tell me is better.
  Stay home in bed probably

[D. Taylor Sapergia]

Roger, I think you are on to something.  With the open sights (no shaders) the silver blade shows up nicely on a dark target, but put on the shaders which crisps up the sights, and you cannot see the sights against the black centre.  So, i've made up some targets of black poster board with some various shapes, colours and sizes of centres...I'll let you know how this goes.  This chunk game is interesting, and no where near as easy as I thought it was going to be.

[Sam Everly]

Go to the York shoot and look at 200 spoters, every one has a differant one . I use a yellow back ground with a black upside down u . I slide the flat top blade in to the u and have just a hint of yellow on the sides . The rear sight is a flat top with a notch wide enough to see the u with a hint of yellow around it . Sounds odd but it works for me . It took me about a year of shooting just chunk, to where i got to where i could hold my own ! A hint, shoot off the bench for a while to get your spoters right then go to the belly! You have to get every thing right each time you get up and down , same place on the blanket and same elbow  spots and feet the same . That is why the bench is better for getting the spoters right.       

[Roger Fisher]

Roger, I think you are on to something.  With the open sights (no shaders) the silver blade shows up nicely on a dark target, but put on the shaders which crisps up the sights, and you cannot see the sights against the black centre.  So, i've made up some targets of black poster board with some various shapes, colours and sizes of centres...I'll let you know how this goes.  This chunk game is interesting, and no where near as easy as I thought it was going to be.

I mentioned that I use a 6 0'clock hold to attempt same hold each shot and do not hold up in the black.  Idea is to set that black square centered on top of my post frt sight.  This worked just fine til cataracts began fuzzing out the sight picture and nutzing up my shooting.    Yes it does look easy but ain't.       And as ol Sam posted you must attempt to do each and every thing the same each shot.!  It is an old tyme shooting regime for certain and never died out in our South and mid states.

[Daryl]

I tried a 6 o'clock hold, but couldn't see the top of the sight against the bull worth a hoot. That's why I went back to the bead - works for me - shaded or not, doesn't matter.

[beleg2]

Hi, good posts!
Sight are a very personal matter, it depends on your point of view.
I alway like partridge (square) front sight and flat rear sight with square notch.
I use to hunt avutardas (South american geese) shooting with my .22 Remington at more than 100 yards with this sight many years ago.
Now my eyes are not better and following Daryl advise try express sights. I love them.
Daryl, How about a tutoria about how you make your sights?
Im puzzled on how you solder the brass cilinder on your front sight.
Thanks
Martin

[Daryl]

That's an idea, Martin- but it's easy- you just tin the top of the blade and bead material (solid brass rod), then hold the round dowel of brass on top of the slightly langled blade and heat it till the brass flows. Take the heat away, and let is solidify - done.  It's almost as simple as any other soldering.

[doug]

I tried a 6 o'clock hold, but couldn't see the top of the sight against the bull worth a hoot. That's why I went back to the bead - works for me - shaded or not, doesn't matter.

     I think the major issue in terms of rear sight shape is eyesight/age.  After a bit of dragging my feet, I find I have to wear sort of long distance reading glasses to see my sights.  They are set for me to focus sharply at about 40".  I can see my sights very sharply and still see about 90% of the target out to around 75 yards or so.
      I think as a person gets over 50 or so their close up sight starts to fail and since Daryl fits that category of age, I think the reason he finds the wide shallow V effective is that it probably is much less fuzzy than a relatively narrow notch whether V or square U.

cheers Doug

[beleg2]

Daryl,
You mean “till the brass flows” or till the tin flows?
Martin

[Daryl]

Sorry- till the solder flows.

[Daryl]

Spot-on, Doug.  When shooting my handguns, if I raise my glasses to look through the bi-focal, the sights are dead sharp - both of them.  Can't see much of the targets, though.  I may see enough of them to shoot fairly well, but my long distance perscription allows a good front sight, with a fuzzy rear (sight).

[Roger Fisher]

Go to the York shoot and look at 200 spoters, every one has a differant one . I use a yellow back ground with a black upside down u . I slide the flat top blade in to the u and have just a hint of yellow on the sides . The rear sight is a flat top with a notch wide enough to see the u with a hint of yellow around it . Sounds odd but it works for me . It took me about a year of shooting just chunk, to where i got to where i could hold my own ! A hint, shoot off the bench for a while to get your spoters right then go to the belly! You have to get every thing right each time you get up and down , same place on the blanket and same elbow  spots and feet the same . That is why the bench is better for getting the spoters right.       

Well Sam, that sounds very interesting and intend to give that idea a shot (or maybe a lot of 'shots'!   Thanks for that suggestion.,...!  Most of our chunk shooting is done on various targets with scoring lines at just 50 yds where a spotter is not used or allowed...   One shoot a year where we shoot the olde tyme way string measure at 60 yds that being the Getz/Singer shoot in July and of course ol Daryl's postal string measure shot at 50 yds....Still worth some experimenting!  At my age I better hurry!

[Sam Everly]

Hey Roger your still a young man in this chunk game . We have a guy named Vee Jones in his 90's i think 93 now. He still is shooting , last year he built him self a new chunk rifle. Took it to the York shoot and did pretty good with it . He shot at the old Catalooche match in NorthCarolina in the 1950 and 60's . He shot i would guess the best 3 shot group ever shot  ( .015 total for the 3 ) He still has the target and will show you it if you ask . He did it with a Bill Large barrel, he and Bill where thick as butter. I think it showes a pic of him and Bill in the FoxFire book . Another tip i will share with you on shooting off the bench. When getting every thing up to snuff , mount a scope on the rifle temp, and shoot it that way till you get it to shoot 1 hole groups every time. Then go to the open sights on the bench. when you think it is all it will do . Then go to the belly . When i was starting chunk shooting The bevel Bros told me how to start out that way , it did work for me. I would come home and shoot in my back yard everyday off the bench, for about 2 months. I then shot on my belly every day for about 10 months after that . Rain, sleet, snow, or sun shine . You get pretty good that way and can learn to read the weather cond's too. I shot 10 pounds of powder and several thousand caps up that year.             

[Candle Snuffer]

I'm probably the od ball here, 'cause I liked Daryl's spotter he supplied
with the chunk targets. 

I think the reason I liked it so well is because at many of our monthly club shoots, we shoot a very similar target for our "miniture" Creedmoor match and the white center with black ring is what we use, almost the same
demensions.

I had some left to right movement with my shots and my verticle spread was more then I would have liked, but overall, Daryl's spotter worked
good for me I felt.  Not that I'm going to be a threat to any real chunk
shooters anytime soon.

[Daryl]

Last time at the range, I tried a variety of bull shapes, noting group shape.  A 3 1/2" circle of black seemed to be the best, resulting in the best group, anyway, and using blade and V notch sights. With the wide V and bead, the one I provided gave a perfect sight picture.  Even at that, I wasn't happy with the groups- getting vertical and othe odd flyer that shouldn't be there. When I got home and cleaned the rifle, I found the barrel lugs front and back were loose.  I've put the .45 barrel back on and will shoot the match with that. 
TAylor is away for this long weekend and we're going to shoot the chuck match this coming week.  I hope to ge tthe rifle repared for Hefley as I need the .40 for the squirrel match.

I'm not flinching like I was last year - (lots of shooting lately had helped in that regard) and I expect to put all 5 inside the squirrel's mellon.

[Leatherbelly]

Daryls,
 Ahh, so that's the secret!! Ha!

[smokinbuck]

Daryl,
I don't know what they shoot in the squirrel match at Hefly but I've got a 40 down here that puts them wherever you point her, over and over. Ron Borron built her around a Howard Kelly 53" X 1" barrel. Nice butternut full stock, with a built in cant, and a Cambers (I think) flint lock. Round bottom rear sight and a pin head front. She likes a dark circle to shoot into, abou 3.5" - 4" in diameter. She's looking for a new home.
Mark

[Daryl]

Mark, the squirrel match is at the silhouette of a squirrel standing up, burn into a shingle with a shaped branding iron.  You end up with an outline only with no scoring rings, all of which is hung on a target board amongst branches and leaves. Suffice to say, you must put all the shots into the mellon to win. Any 1" group will probably win it if pefectly centred. Oh yeah, it's close, only 25 yards.
; Your .40 sounds great, Mark, but a 1" x54"? Gads, I can barely hold up my own .40 which is only 7/8"x 42 1/2".

[smokinbuck]

Daryl,
Didn't realize you were talking about an offhand match. We have some similar and have a few smaller 40's that we can hold up a little easier. I just like BIG guns, like my .62 fowler with a 72" barrel or my Brooks underhammer at 40+#. Then there's the 8 bore!! It's one heck of a game if you can just decide what aspect of it to enjoy.
Mark

[Daryl]

I'd like to try a really big gun some time. Taylor built a 5 pound underhammer for a fellow, once.  It would have made Billinhurst proud.  The barrel was 2 1/2" octagonal, but unfortunately, it had a 1" hole in it and the guy wanted it left a 4 bore.  I was all for lining the barrel with a slug or RB liner, but such was not to be.  When test firing the gun, it would move backwards 12" - no matter how hard you put your shoulder into it. It would go boom - then the gun would slide back on the bags. Seems to me Taylor made a muzzle rest for it.  I remember it had a tang sight and hooded pin-head(hog's bristle) front and we used to get about a 3' group at 300 meters.  It moved about 1/2 yard of dirt & rocks when it hit.  I still have a recovered ball, flattened out very nicely. Taylor made a 1" mould for it out of maple. We cast a bunch, then shot them off.  I think we only used 300gr. fo 2F(11 DRAMS)