Author Topic: Testing a Short .58 Leman Elk Rifle  (Read 8161 times)

Offline Old Ford2

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Re: Testing a Short .58 Leman Elk Rifle
« Reply #25 on: February 19, 2018, 03:35:07 PM »
Thank you Herb, for the great effort that you have done to give us this valuable information.
If I may add. I have had great success in shooting good scores by using a bees wax and olive mix soaked into a 3/16 felt wad over powder wad.
Each wad is cut to slightly over size to bore. Over bore size makes them easier to load and stay in place in the bore
It works well from .40 cal. to .62 cal.
Most all patches were fine enough to use again.
Yes the wads are a bit stiff in the cold, but as soon as you start  them down the barrel they form well and easy. You can't really use a 3/4" wad down a .40 cal. barrel, a 7/16" wad works fine.
I punch a bunch of them on the end of a hard wood board, two hundred or so at a time.
Then in a shallow tin can I melt the olive oil/beeswax mix about 25/75. When the olive oil & beeswax is liquid I put 20 or so at a time in the mix, take them out, let them cool on wax paper. ( at first I put the wads on plywood, they stuck too well, not bad on a piece of aluminium, but wax paper was the best.
These wads really make a difference in stopping patch burn out and keeping the fowling soft.
PS: You can purchase the hole punches at your local hardware stores, Harbour Freight, auto supply stores, or from me at only 5 easy payments of $19.95  ;D
Best regards!
« Last Edit: February 19, 2018, 03:40:43 PM by Old Ford2 »
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Offline Herb

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Re: Testing a Short .58 Leman Elk Rifle
« Reply #26 on: February 19, 2018, 08:11:57 PM »
Thanks, Old Ford.  I appreciate you sharing this with us.  I use a 3/4" Harbor Freight tool to punch the thick wool, but the Triple 7 needed something thicker, maybe two of those 1/8" thick wool wads.  I cut them oversize so they will cup and not go down the bore edgewise.  I don't need to shoot any more T7, I have demonstrated how to use it in a flintlock, which was why I used it.  I like Alliant Black MZ.  We finally have snow here, about 5" now and still coming.  A friend from the old GRRW, Carney, has some original GRRW black powder, 3F and 2F, which he is offering me to use for comparison.  When my shooting range dries out and it warms up again, I'll shoot those powders  for the historical comparison.  Put it in a separate topic.  I have a pound of GRRW 2F, but I'll get the story of the powder from Carney and add it to the forum.  He also has some interesting patching and sperm whale oil, so we'll see what comes out of all that.

Offline Herb

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Re: Testing a Short .58 Leman Elk Rifle
« Reply #27 on: September 13, 2019, 10:34:29 PM »
I got the fantods (Jack O'Connor) from too many hours of building another close copy of the Kit Carson Hawken.  It was 50 degrees here and with no snow, I figured I should take a break and try out my .58 Leman, recently rebored by Bobby Hoyt from a .54 GRRW barrel that went through a fire and had been rebuilt by me into an elk rifle.  I made it as a caplock then changed it to a flintlock.  It has a 24 inch 1 1/16" barrel, which was too pitted to lap smooth.  Thus the rebore.  I hunted elk with it one season two years ago.

(I typed the text then uploaded the pictures and don't know how to move them where I want them.  Sorry about that). 

Today I tested five powders in it, using .570 cast balls and .016 linen that crushed to .010.  I made weight calibrated measures for each powder.  Shot  four-shot groups of each  at 50 yards through my Oehler 35P chronograph after a first fouling shot.  I had a damp cleaning patch on the seater jag, thus wiped the bore at each loading, but did not clean between powders until after the fourth one.  The 100 grains of Goex 2F grouped well and the patches were good.  Then I went to Olde Eynsford 2F and 1 1/2F and the patches blew.  So with the next powders, I used .019/.012 Levi, which held together so well it could have been used again, but required hammering the short starter to get the ball in the bore. I need a thinner patch. 

With no cleaning, I went to Alliant Black MZ.  This is probably to be loaded volume equivalent to Goex 2F.  I weighed those charges, and they averaged 88 grains, this being a coarse powder.  But to test weight equivalent charges, I made a measure that held 100 grains of BMZ.  This will not ignite reliably without a black powder booster charge, so I poured the measure full, then tapped out 5 or 10 grains and filled that with Goex 2F and poured it down the bore.  Real black powder must be used in the pan, I use about four grains of Goex 4F.  This results in perfectly reliable firing, I would trust it in any situation.

I had not cleaned the bore before this test and the velocity spread was large, but the group was good.  I then cleaned the bore to go home, but decided to shoot the Swiss 1 1/2F with good patches.  Then I had all the testing I wanted.

I have also used Black MZ in a .45 flintlock Lancaster style rifle I built, and it worked perfectly, with the black powder boost and black in the pan.  Anyone who says Black MZ or the Pyrodex or Triple 7 powders will not work in a flintlock has not tested these powders adequately to state that as fact.

« Last Edit: November 23, 2019, 12:44:47 AM by Dennis Glazener »

Offline One Eye

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Re: Testing a Short .58 Leman Elk Rifle
« Reply #28 on: September 16, 2019, 10:29:31 PM »
Thanks Herb!
This is just dandy.
One Eye
"Even a fool is counted wise when he holds his peace..."
 Proverbs 17:28

Offline Bob Roller

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Re: Testing a Short .58 Leman Elk Rifle
« Reply #29 on: September 18, 2019, 02:03:18 AM »
I wouldn’t use any of the black powder substitutes in any of my guns. I’ve seen too many with barrel damage, even though they were well maintained.

 Hungry Horse

HH has again hit the nail squarely on the head.A friend gave me some Triple 7
about 2 years ago and I finally gave it back to him.I still have more than enough
black powder from DuPont,Curtis&Harvey,Elephant and Goex and a wee bit of
Meteor,whatever that is or was.

Bob Roller

Offline Pukka Bundook

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Re: Testing a Short .58 Leman Elk Rifle
« Reply #30 on: September 18, 2019, 04:14:44 PM »
If memory serves, Meteor was made by Curtis' & Harvey's.

Offline Daryl

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Re: Testing a Short .58 Leman Elk Rifle
« Reply #31 on: September 19, 2019, 11:08:54 PM »
The last can of it I had said: "Made in Scotland".

"a gun without hammers is like a spaniel without ears" King George V