Author Topic: After rust (Read 11715 times)

b bogart · « **on:** July 30, 2008, 01:14:57 AM »

I just re brown my barrel. First attempt turned out well but... Mr Danglers browning elixer kept right on rusting, including pittting after neutralizing and oiling. I oiled twice a day for 3 days then had to go out of town for daughter #1 wedding. Took 2 days off and had pits! Hence the second go round. Just carded, neutralized with soda, and carded with oil. Then oiled again with a clean cloth, rubbing briskly. Any other tips?? I don't wanna drawfile for the 3rd time.
Bruce

Roger Fisher · « **Reply #1 on:** July 30, 2008, 01:49:15 AM »

Assuming you used the baking soda wash to kill the browning, you might have run into the same problem that I did a yr or so ago. I had used a fresh box of soda then slapped duct tape to seal the box. Used it again and worked fine. Think it may have been 2 yrs later used it and it did not want to kill the process. I realized that the soda was tooooo old Duh!! Got a fresh box and it worked no sweat. (And no more brown!!!

This just might be your problem....

Lucky R A · « **Reply #2 on:** July 30, 2008, 01:18:57 PM »

Bruce, As Roger said you have to completely neutralize the acid used in the browning solution. I had the "after rust" problem when using Laurel Mt. Forge browning solution which is extremely aggressive, more so than Homer's which is easier to work with. Bill Shipman supplied the answer to my problem when he suggested that I neutralize with Sodium Hydroxide (lye). You just paint the solution on and allow it to dry and then scrub it off with lots of water. I then dry and oil down the barrel, by first coating it with WD-40 which displaces any remaining moisture and then I use 05-30 motor oil which contains rust inhibitors. I let the barrel set for a couple of days with the coat of motor oil on it. Finally wipe down the barrel and apply your favorite gun oil...I still keep an eye on it, but rarely find any after rust. If you notice any indication of after rust, brush the barrel down briskly with a plastic scrub brush and re-apply your gun oil.

rick landes · « **Reply #3 on:** July 30, 2008, 03:29:53 PM »

I use about 1 cup box of baking soda to 1/2 cup water and apply as a thin paste/rinse repeat with about a 30 minute neutralize time in between. I warm the barrel after the final rinse and rub in a small amount of BLO, repeat 3x and then finish with 2 coats of hard floor type wax. Gives a nice evening to the browning and a smooth finish to the barrel.

b bogart · « **Reply #4 on:** July 30, 2008, 10:13:24 PM »

Thank you gentlemen!
Bruce

doug · « **Reply #5 on:** July 31, 2008, 03:18:34 AM »

I rust my damascus barrels with a mercuric chloride solution, alternating with ferric chloride. I finish with lots of water and washing then oil. It is not uncommon to get after rust and when I do, card some more, lots more water and keep an eye on it. What would worry me about sodium hydroxide is the risk of it removing the rust.
I would be suspicious that the commercial rusting solutions may contain mercuric chloride rather than acid and the critical thing is to wash out the chloride rather than neutralizing an acid. I suspect the chloride is bonded into the rust on the surface and that is why it keeps on acting.

cheers Doug

Eric Kettenburg · « **Reply #6 on:** July 31, 2008, 03:28:05 AM »

I heat the barrel or other iron part up to a good warm temp (not too hot to touch though: think modertately hot water temp) and drench it in ammonia. I do this a few times. Same effect as using lye but doesn't eat up my fingertips and doesn't remove any rust (I have had lye do this to a small extent a few times, but admittedly it ws pretty strong - gave it a 'bleached' or faded look).

B Shipman · « **Reply #7 on:** July 31, 2008, 07:46:36 AM »

I just hate screwing around with after rusting. Taking out a barrel again and again. Finish the barrel however you do, then slop on a saturated solution of sodium hyroxide, let it dry and wash it off. Nothing lives. Just remember this stuff is extremely caustic. Wear gloves. This stuff will blister quickly. Dispose of rags with caution. This stufff will turn cotton into pulp with the resultant release of heat.

flehto · « **Reply #8 on:** July 31, 2008, 06:40:13 PM »

After a lot of after rust using baking soda, switched to ammonia and haven't had any after rust at all . The small parts are submerged using a plastic pail and bbls are "painted" a few times. Then a good hot water rinse and when dry, a light rubbing w/ WonderLube saturated 0000 stl wool. Have reused the ammonia many times and it's always been effective.....Fred

MKemper · « **Reply #9 on:** July 31, 2008, 07:51:30 PM »

Bill, do you acquire the sodium hydroxide in pellet form? If not, how do you purchase it and create your solution?

Dr. Tim-Boone · « **Reply #10 on:** July 31, 2008, 10:18:21 PM »

81024-2 - Sodium Hydroxide Flake 2lbs
2lb Jar of Sodium Hydroxide Flake
Price:$ 10.00 / 2lb

http://www.chemistrystore.com/cart.cgi?group=49941&child=49949

T*O*F · « **Reply #11 on:** July 31, 2008, 11:02:46 PM »

Tim,
Sodium hydroxide and lye are the same thing. What you posted is just a purer form and will have a $20 hazmat charge attached to the shipping. Lye is easier to find and only cost a couple of bucks a box.

Birddog6 · « **Reply #12 on:** August 01, 2008, 12:39:01 AM »

It may be easier for you to find, but nobody areoun here has any. From what the hardware place tole me, nobody will vend it now cause the Meth makers use it when they make drugs.
I went to 4 places today trying to find some, all told me the same thing. So I guess I will try the ammonia, as if this barrel keeps on rusting it will have bore pits from the outside in !! ha ha !

Gonna try a new box of baking soda first & if that doesn't work, then will try the ammonia.

Frank · « **Reply #13 on:** August 01, 2008, 06:07:57 AM »

Let us know how the ammonia works for you.

B Shipman · « **Reply #14 on:** August 01, 2008, 07:48:54 AM »

I have NAOH pellets but it really does'nt mattter. When it no longer dissolves and a sediment forms on the bottom of the container, you have a saturated solution. No technique, nothing wears out; it's just way more base than anything you put on in the first place. Lye is fine . So is ammonia. So is baking soda. I've done all this.This is just stronger, faster, and more certain. Slop it on, let it dry. Wash it of, and that's the ballgame every time. Just handle with care.

chapmans · « **Reply #15 on:** August 01, 2008, 04:55:17 PM »

I've heard that oven cleaner has lye in it??? but I have never looked at the ingreadients label.
We have a self cleaning oven!

MKemper · « **Reply #16 on:** August 01, 2008, 06:48:01 PM »

If one elects to use pure Sodium Hydroxide (flakes) is it simply disolved in water to create the solution? Can this be safely done in shop? Any concern over the inhalation of vapor?

doug · « **Reply #17 on:** August 01, 2008, 07:54:08 PM »

Drano is lye with aluminum flakes added. Also an alternative would be caustic potash which is potasium hydroxide; virtually the same thing as lye but might not be as controlled as sodium hydroxide

cheers Doug

Metalshaper · « **Reply #18 on:** August 01, 2008, 08:43:34 PM »

Quote from: MKemper on August 01, 2008, 06:48:01 PM

If one elects to use pure Sodium Hydroxide (flakes) is it simply disolved in water to create the solution? Can this be safely done in shop? Any concern over the inhalation of vapor?

There will be a lot of heat generated and depending on the strength of solution being mixed, a plastic container can melt! pyrex/Kimax or at least a good glass jar is required..

the fumes are not real great on your lungs,, but if you mix it out doors, or with good ventilation,, You'll be fine!

I mix mine in the fume hood,, in our lab

Respect Always
Metalshaper

Metalshaper · « **Reply #19 on:** August 01, 2008, 08:51:14 PM »

oh yeah..

with the hydroxide and just like mixing any acid.. always add the chemical into the water

not the other way!!!

Once saw a ya-bird in our lab,, try it the wrong way!!

it was rather spectacular!

Respect Always
Metalshaper

P.W.Berkuta · « **Reply #20 on:** August 01, 2008, 11:20:37 PM »

I found this link - you don't have to buy 100 pounds of the stuff -

http://www.aaa-chemicals.com/sodium-hydroxide-technical-grade.html

Dr. Tim-Boone · « **Reply #21 on:** August 02, 2008, 12:16:38 AM »

Quote from: TOF on July 31, 2008, 11:02:46 PM

Tim,
Sodium hydroxide and lye are the same thing. What you posted is just a purer form and will have a $20 hazmat charge attached to the shipping. Lye is easier to find and only cost a couple of bucks a box.

I have bought it over the internet twice and never had to pay any hazmat charge. I guess two years ago was last time, when I was building my cherry fowler

Only the large orders or solid have a hazmat fee: Shipping Information: Sodium Hydroxide, solid, 8, UN1823, PG II (Subject to Hazardous Material Shipping Charges)
The 25lb pail & 55 lb bag includes a ($20.00) hazardous material charge + ($10.00) packaging cost to meet current DOT Regulations, in addition to the usual freight charge.This fee is included in the cost of the product

Frank · « **Reply #22 on:** August 12, 2008, 05:01:57 PM »

I just finished a rifle and used ammonia to neutralize the browning as mentioned here. It works great. Thanks to all who recommended it.

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Author Topic: After rust (Read 11715 times)

doug

Birddog6

chapmans

doug