Author Topic: j&s hawken build help (Read 4283 times)

adam h · « **on:** February 24, 2020, 04:19:49 AM »

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I was using inletting black on my precarve stock it was hitting at the top at the corner the top was also
not tight to stock as I worked it closer the top came tight sides are good but I have a gap at the bottom
I stopped I don't know how to move forward from here.

adam h · « **Reply #1 on:** February 24, 2020, 04:23:35 AM »

I fit my breech plug to barrel then the tang to breech plug the best I could then super glued the tang
and file fit how does it look.

rich pierce · « **Reply #2 on:** February 24, 2020, 04:45:00 AM »

Just inlet the buttplate forward. Don’t try to do it molecule by molecule.

1. Make a sawcut with a fine bladed hacksaw 1/8” forward on the wood in front of the tang. Remove wood to level out the platform the tang slides on. You are setting it up so the top of the buttplate can slide forward 1/8”.

2. At the corner of the buttplate and further down to 2/3 of the way down toward the toe, draw a pencil line 1/8” inside where it is now. Do this on both sides of the stock.

3. Saw or rasp to the pencil line.

4. Then start re-fitting with inletting black or whatever transfer material you use.

Hooked breech fitting looks good.

smylee grouch · « **Reply #3 on:** February 24, 2020, 04:48:12 AM »

Looks like your getting ahead of your self. Get the barrel in the stock,then the lock, then the triggers, then measure for length of pull and finnish the butt. This of course if you havent done so already.

adam h · « **Reply #4 on:** February 24, 2020, 05:01:15 AM »

smiley I am getting ahead of my self I like the length of the stock the way I got
it so I thought I would put the buttplate on to protect the toe from breaking if
I had a accident.
thank you Rich

smylee grouch · « **Reply #5 on:** February 24, 2020, 05:26:48 AM »

The toe on that style of gun can be broken off quite easy. I know of some makers that reinforce the area with a small hickory dowel glued in place on an angle to the toe.

adam h · « **Reply #6 on:** February 24, 2020, 05:37:26 AM »

ok smiley.
I have some fitting to do around the nipple yet at the tang and breech then I
was gonna inlet the barrel.
I still need a lot of things for this so im doing what I have tools for
I still need countersinks and I don't know what sizes for hawken bolts.

Herb · « **Reply #7 on:** February 24, 2020, 07:11:09 AM »

Buttplate- easiest thing to do is to set the lower end parallel in your padded vise jaws and pinch the last 1 1/2" of the toe forward. It will bend easily, cold. The rest of your inlet looks OK. Refitting is like sawing a chair leg off to get all four level on the floor. I have done a lot of this. Don't mess with what you have. If you have some slight gaps, wax the inside of the buttplate and put brown-colored epoxy around the edges and screw it down tight. Sand to finish when dry. Very little will show, you probably won't even see it when the stock is stained and finished. Countersinks- See Track of the Wolf's website. Probably only need a 3/8" 82 degree tool, their number #Drill-CS-82-6. Or just go to your Ace Hardware or auto supply store or Lowes and they will help you.

Eric Krewson · « **Reply #8 on:** February 24, 2020, 07:17:38 AM »

I had a similar problem with an english fowler buttplate, mine was cast from metal so hard a file wouldn't touch it. After struggling with my inletting for a few days and gaining no ground i heated the toe of the buttplate to red hot and smacked it with a large hammer, problem solved.

Daryl · « **Reply #9 on:** February 24, 2020, 09:15:43 PM »

Just don't hit it when on the stock. Toe breaks off.

Gunnermike · « **Reply #10 on:** February 24, 2020, 11:03:03 PM »

adam it might help you to review this post by D.Taylor Sapergia titled "Hawken Stuff" - https://americanlongrifles.org/forum/index.php?topic=37886.0
The post is 7 pages long and will probably help you build your Hawken since it covers everything you will be doing. Check out how Taylor cleaned up the bolster casting on the first page of "Hawken Stuff". I can see from your 2nd photo the bolster "bowl area" is unfinished & should be cleaned up & refined. There are lots of tips to help you build a correct Hawken.

Also, click on Herb's avitar above and find his posts on Hawken building - his postings are an encyclopedia of Hawken information.

Mike

Don685 · « **Reply #11 on:** February 25, 2020, 02:31:21 AM »

I should probably not respond because I have never introduced my self to this forum , I have been I'm the back ground reading the post of the professional builders and have to date built 7 hawken style rifles and have had the same problem in the beginning your having with the butt plate .What I found out to be the problem with me was I was hitting it to hard and putting black in the center and pushing the lower part away and was not getting a true reading from the inlet black. I would try tapping lightly or just pushing it in.hope this will help as so many post have helped me Good luck

D. Taylor Sapergia · « **Reply #12 on:** February 25, 2020, 02:53:40 AM »

Don: your observation about overdoing the whacking part is right on. On my current build which is a Herman Rupp inspired rifle, I used a Goering butt plate, and his plates are notoriously soft. I overdid the whacking part and found I was having the same problem until I cottoned on to it. I dropped my hammer three sizes and things went nicely after that.

Joe S. · « **Reply #13 on:** February 25, 2020, 03:24:31 AM »

Maybe post a side picture of the tang affixed to the barrel.While it's hard to tell with the shadows,lighting,it almost looks like the tang is bent at to much of an angle.

adam h · « **Reply #14 on:** February 25, 2020, 03:57:18 AM »

joe you are correct this is the bridger hawken tang from totw herb says he bends his I just
haven't got that far but it was next.

don 685 I was tapping on the but I didn't bend it but I don't think ill tap anymore.

I have taylors hawken stuff in my favorites and don't remember how often I have read it
I also have a bunch of threads from herb and photos of louieparkers hawkens.

herb, thanks for the advise I will get totw countersink.

I woke up at 1 in the morning thinking about this for couple hrs I think I will wait on the buttplate and follow steps that smiley grouch suggested

yes daryl I need to be careful. thanks guys

alacran · « **Reply #15 on:** February 25, 2020, 04:10:13 AM »

Once in a while I will tap on the edges of a brass butt plate. I never whack on a steel but plate. Just fit it.

Scota4570 · « **Reply #16 on:** February 25, 2020, 04:33:19 AM »

The tang is tricky to inlet well. The extension is beaver tail, the face is angled. Figure on it going down and forward, not straight down into the wrist. Cut the draft on the beaver tail for that. Take your time. Herb may be able to explain it better.

Added later: Use a big fat marker for in-letting black. It only transfers on hard contact, avoiding false marks. It is not messy.

Don685 · « **Reply #17 on:** February 25, 2020, 04:55:35 AM »

I think you will get it just look at the picture you posted and you will see your hitting to hard and to high making the top tight and moving the bottom out

adam h · « **Reply #18 on:** February 25, 2020, 05:15:59 AM »

the best advise i have been givin is to take my time and don't rush.
there is no big hurry to finish this rifle but it is a goal.i am sure you
guys will be hearing more of me.

D. Taylor Sapergia · « **Reply #19 on:** February 25, 2020, 07:54:58 PM »

I have never received a Hawken tang that did not require bending to make it fit the profile contour of the top of the wrist. Yours is no exception.

Make a tin or brass profile of your wrist and use red heat to re-shape the tang to follow it. With the tang fitted to the hooked breech, rotate the barrel up-side-down, and look down the barrel to the tang. Be sure that the tang is in line and not bent off to the right or left...many are. THEN inlet it.

You will have to use your pre-carved stock to create your profile pattern for shaping the curve of the tang. When using a plank, create your profile drawing first before cutting any wood or metal. I do this for every gun I make. I am not talented enough to work without a plan...a physical plan - not one in my head.

adam h · « **Reply #20 on:** February 26, 2020, 03:09:34 AM »

D.taylor thanks for the information I am working on a plan. I wont swag on this one
I have enough to do now that I will be busy all summer I will post results asi go
Thanks Everyone with out this forum I would be done.

borderdogs · « **Reply #21 on:** February 26, 2020, 03:27:24 AM »

I read Taylor's "Hawken Stuff" and all I can say is thank you for posting all that information. I have a question on bending the tang, I have just started a full stock Hawken and as you said the tang needs to be straighten and formed. The straightening isnt much but it needs to be straighter so how and where to apply heat?
Thanks,
Rob

adam h · « **Reply #22 on:** February 26, 2020, 05:22:25 AM »

Rob I have a spare tang so I can heat and bend to get the profile I want then transfer to
the one Im gonna use, still working on that. My tang is straight in line with the flat so
I just need to bend some

borderdogs · « **Reply #23 on:** February 26, 2020, 03:43:17 PM »

I thought about getting an extra tang but didn't. I have a pre-inletted stock too I have cold bent the tang to shape that somewhat follows the shape of the wrist. I still need to get the slight bend straight.
Rob

adam h · « **Reply #24 on:** February 29, 2020, 03:17:35 AM »

I made a copy of my stock profile and made this jig. then I used a bolt to hold it in and heated it and
bent it with clamps. it was in line with the barrel I just changed the arch.

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Author Topic: j&s hawken build help (Read 4283 times)