Still Seeing Double

[Mark Elliott]

I am posting this for Dick Gadler who is having computer problems.  Mark E.

Dick writes:

This is a swivel breech rifle made by J. HIllegas in Pottsville, PA, probably in the early 1840s. This rifle is unique in several ways. It is a rifle by a fairly well known maker, but few examples of his work are around. This gun in terms of ornamentation is representative of his best pieces having a very fancy patchbox, and 20 silver inlays.

It is a bit unusual in that it is full stocked, (full paneled forearm) when most percussion swivel breech rifles were not.

The barrels have heat treated patent breeches with the nipple going directly into the firing chamber rather than the usual drum and nipple method.

Barrels are 34 inches in length and are about .48 caliber with one being straight rifled and the other has spiral rifling.

This rifle was awarded an NRA Silver Medal at the NRA national meeting at Anaheim, CA in the early 1990s.

[WESTbury]

What a beautiful rifle. Swivel breech rifles are some of the most interesting rifles, especially from an engineering and manufacturing viewpoint.

[Buck]

Dick,

That's a smoker! You should have put it with the others - in the other thread. Thanks for posting Mark.

Buck

[wildcatter]

What a rifle!! Curious is that a lever on the side plate to rotate the barrels?

Matt

[Frank Graves]

The Hess swivel on … THE SEQUEL string has the same type of lever release for the manual rotation of the barrels opposite the lock.

[mr. no gold]

Thank you for the kind comments. I didn't think to ask Mark to put this into the original thread; just glad to get it to where you all could see it. The side lever is the release to rotate the barrels. It appears to be simpler than the more complicated trigger guard arrangement. This one happens to have a serpent head on the end. I can't recall seeing any late swivel guns with the T'guard release, but there probably are some. Thanks again.
Almost forgot, Dr. Bill gets the credit for these fine photos and this gun is likely to be included in his forthcoming 'swivel book.'

Dick

[jdm]

Dick, You've been holding out on us. Wonderful swivel with a great look . Your are correct . There aren't  very many full paneled swivels and probably less percussion ones. I've seen one or two  Hillegas rifles  ( not twisters ) .   They aren't common. Thanks for sharing it with the other swivel lovers out here.

The Boyer I post turns from the trigger guard.   Jim

[mr. no gold]

Jim, thank you for your interest and comments. I have seen only two other Hillegas rifles; one was a beater, swivel, flint gun in a restaurant near Disneyland and the other one is shown in the original 'KRA Red Back' book. It is a standard rifle with the high level of ornamentation as this gun has. Hillegas has descendants and I spoke with one of them. He said that the old man went out ot Ohio and worked there. So, where are all of the two bodies of his work, PA and OH? You boys who live in the East have the best chance of finding out. So, go out there and find'em.
Dick

[Buck]

Dick,

Again this is a great rifle - I'm glad you posted it.

Noel

[mr. no gold]

Thank you Noel! And, same to ya for putting your magnificent flint double up to be admired.
Dick

[WESTbury]

Great rifles, it's a pleasure to have the opportunity to see them.

I realize that the barrel length of these swivel rifles has to be relatively short, in contrast to single barrel rifles, due to the weight and forces on the mechanism. I'm curious though, if the fellows that collect swivel rifles have any info pertaining to the longest barrel lengths they have observed?

From a practical viewport, adding more weight with longer barrels would necessitate "beefing" up the swivel mechanism and breech/lock area of the rifle to the point of making the rifle unwieldy.

[OLUT]

Great rifles, it's a pleasure to have the opportunity to see them.

I realize that the barrel length of these swivel rifles has to be relatively short, in contrast to single barrel rifles, due to the weight and forces on the mechanism. I'm curious though, if the fellows that collect swivel rifles have any info pertaining to the longest barrel lengths they have observed?

From a practical viewport, adding more weight with longer barrels would necessitate "beefing" up the swivel mechanism and breech/lock area of the rifle to the point of making the rifle unwieldy.

I can't speak to the flintlock swivel breech, but he longest percussion one I own is a full stocked Levi Kaup with 38 1/2 inch barrels , with a Horn and a Kornman at 38 inches ... later swivel  guns seem to run typically in the 31 to 34 inch range with exceptions of course

[jdm]

Bill Paton would be a good one to answer the longest barrel question . He has measured over 185 for his up coming book.

Dick, I'm no Eastern boy . Midwesterner like you used to be before you bailed out.

[WESTbury]

Perhaps we should wait for Bill's book to be published so we don't steal his thunder.

[Buck]

Barrel length on my Angstadt is 40.25". The previous owner believed the production date to be around 1812 when Abraham appeared and began work in the Angstadt shop.

Buck

[mr. no gold]

Jim, not sure now that moving to California was much of a 'bail out.' Things out here are downright peculiar. I have some ground in the French Country of Southern Illinois, but fear that moving there would not be much of an improvement. Glad to have grown up there, though.
Kent, I made it a point to ask Dr. Bill about posting his photographic work on the ALR and he was quite agreeable. Regardless of what you see here, there are many other views and details that you will find only in his book. Consider what you see here to be teasers to motivate you to purchase his book when it becomes available.
Dick

[WESTbury]

Thanks Dick and Bill, appreciate it.

My post earlier today on this subject was driven by my curiosity as a retired but Unreformed Machine Designer. It gets into your blood!

Kent

[Bill Paton]

Swivel breech barrel lengths:

OK, Jim and you other guys. My data is not yet tabulated in one spot, but I went through it to find the longest barrels in swivels as represented in the 185+ Kentucky double rifles I have measured. I am including data only from the swivels, not the scattered SxS’s, fixed barrel O/U’s, and few single barrel superimposed-charge two shooters in the roster.

Flintlocks:
    A Angstadt   40 7/8”      10 lb  15 oz  (Three of the six Angstadts I have measured exceed 40”)
    J Kunz          40 7/8”      10 lb   8 oz

    (The Wm Antes--earliest American swivel in my opinion-- has 39 13/16” barrels and weighs 12 lb 13 oz)

    Flintlock tend to have longer barrels than percussion swivel breeches.


Percussions:
    W Shreckengost   39 1/2”     15 lb    8 oz
     “        “               39”           13 lb  11 oz
    Hillegas               39 3/8”       9 lb    9 oz

As for the book, I am writing drafts of chapters and filling in gaps in the research, not an easy or quick task from Alaska. I appreciate the interest many of you have expressed in this project, and I am also interested in seeing its information available to everyone.

Bill Paton  --  from the midwest bailed "UP”!

[jdm]

Bill, Thank you for weighing in.

[WESTbury]

Bill, thanks for the great info. Just a cursory analysis of the data provided so far by you and others is interesting. 40 inches plus/minus an inch or so appears, at this junction, to be the upper limit. But, as we all know with antique firearms, there are never absolutes. Sometimes, the exceptions can the rule.

Good luck with your book. It's not easy, based on my experience. Hope you have as good a publisher as I was fortunate to have.

[Buck]

Bill - Thank you.

Buck