Iron mounted double rifle

[Mark Elliott]

This is another post for Dick Gadler.

"This is a huge iron mounted double rifle with unknown provenience....

Furniture is all iron.
Trigger guard is all least two pieces with the bow pinned on to guard and welded.
Caliber of rifled barrel is about .55 cal.
There are no marks anywhere on the piece.
Rifle was found in a Southern California collection out in Palm Springs.
Photos are courtesy of Bill Paton.
Weight is about 14 pounds."

[Tanselman]

Not the prettiest gun I've ever seen, but it has one of the finest pieces of curled maple ever used in a gun stock. Butt architecture and stock wood suggest an eastern Kentucky rifle maker, probably a transplant to the west coast. While I have no knowledge of who made this interesting gun, the stock architecture (and assumption it was made by a transplanted eastern gunsmith) makes me think one reasonable possibility is one of the Kelsey gunsmiths of Kelseyville in Lake County, CA. The extended "family" migrated from Tennessee to Kentucky and then through Missouri to California, with several Kelsey gunsmiths arriving in CA in the 1850s. Their butts looked somewhat similar, and they liked good curly maple...and a couple members made iron mounted guns. But I have not seen this particular guard  on any of their rifles.

Shelby Galien

[Hungry Horse]

Shelby, I am intrigued by your theory. I live eight miles from Kelseyville, and have heard stories about the Kelsey family having a gunsmith, or two, in the clan, but although I have been privileged to view, and handle, many Slotterbeck rifles made in Lake County, I have never seen a Kelsey built gun. Are there known Kelsey built guns in museums, and collections, that have been documented, and or photographed?

  Hungry Horse

[Tanselman]

I have seen several half-stocked Kelsey rifles, all of which I presumed were made in CA. They were nicely stocked in curly maple, clean butt lines, attractive but unadorned rifles that appeared to be well stocked and assembled. I have one full-stocked rifle by William Kelsay [original spelling] in KY, made well before the younger generation moved to CA. If I recall, one of the half-stocked rifles had either "Kelseyville" or "Cal." stamped on the barrel, so was definitely made out there...and the couple of other marked Kelsey rifles looked very similar, but without a location stamp. By the way, the Kelsey family had a lot more than "one or two" gunsmiths in the family...it was the most common trade within the large family.  Shelby Gallien

[Hungry Horse]

 It is fascinating to me, that so many eastern gunsmiths ended up in Lake County. It would seem materials, and customers, would be in short supply, considering how remote the area is. The remnants of the Kennedy, and Higgins, families were early settlers in Lake County. I have not seen a Higgins, or a complete Kennedy muzzleloader built here.

  Hungry Horse

[Tanselman]

I was mistaken in my above response. The Kelsey rifle that had "Kelseyville" or "Cal." stamped on the barrel was stocked in walnut, but all Kelsey half-stocked rifles I have seen (3 that I recall) had similar stock patterns.  Shelby Gallien

[Hungry Horse]

 Well, maple hard enough to make a good gun stock would be pretty hard to come by in Lake County. But, there is plenty of walnut around. The reason for the shortage of Hiram Kennedy rifles in California might be because after cartridge guns got popular Hiram ( and I’m not sure which one, it was a common family name) got cabin fever one long rainy winter, and scooped up a couple of arm loads of muzzleloaders, walked out back, and threw them into the raging creek. Rifle hardware is still a pretty common find for folks metal detecting the creek bed.

  Hungry Horse

[Hungry Horse]

 So the premier gunsmith in 19th century in Lake County was Charle Slotterbeck, who was famous for high quality scoped double rifles. But, the Kelsey’s were here long before Slotterbeck, so who influenced who? Did Slotterbeck make double guns when he worked in San Francisco, or is that something he picked up when he got to Lakeport? All the double guns I’ve seen made by Slotterbeck are marked Lakeport, but I live in Lakeport, maybe the ones I’ve seen just never left.

  Hungry Horse

[Smokey Plainsman]

Very interesting!

[mr. no gold]

Thank you all for your comments on the 'big ugly,' they are much appreciated. And, they have started new lines of inquiry. The gun came to me in a kind of a lopsided deal where I was actually aiming at something else, (a nice 1884 nickle plated, SAA gun with some history) and like an ugly dog the double began to grow on me. I had supposed that it was a southern made rifle that came west. Never even considered that it could have been made out here. Well, why not? Unfortunately, Larry Shelton didn't show any Kelsey, or other guns in his book on CA makers. Now he is gone, so there is no asking him. Will have to get creative and widen the search some it looks like. Thanks again for the input
Dick

[Hungry Horse]

 What I know about the Kelsey clan is kind of interesting. They came to California from Missouri, but the clam originated in North Carolina. Likely, like my own family, they got land in Tennessee for their service during the Revolutionary War. When Missouri, and Arkansas, opened up to homesteads, they moved west. This continued until they ran out of dry land.
 They were a big diverse clan, some of them hard working farmers, and craftsmen, and some rustlers, and outlaws. They were related to the McLowry brothers that died at the O.K. Corral, and some of the clan were part of an outlaw band that terrified the Bay Area, and surrounding counties.
 The gunsmithing history is not mentioned much at all in Lake County history, so I’m inclined to assume either it was a sideline, or was practiced in another county.

  Hungry Horse