stock fitting.

[jerrywh]

 A real well built gun will shoot better but it depends on the shooter. There are three measurements to consider. Cast off or on, drop, cant, and pitch.  Cast off or on is the least important. Look them up. Anybody who shoulders a real well made gun will have an awakening.

[Goo]

After reading the stock fitters Bible it's mostly written for smoothbore shooters. I  had the understanding that stance  has an effect on the stock shape as well.    You may need more or less of cast on or cast off drop can't etc. I made a try stock using a ball joint between grip and comb of a beater gun and discovered everything with the cant,cast drop,etc. changes if your stance changes from sideways muzzle loader stance to more modern front pointing aiming stance.    For flying targets it seems stance needs changed if the targets are going across your path than if they are moving up and away.    What I am saying here is not concluded from experience of many years  but rather repeating information that I read in one of the few books available on this subject.      Stock fitting is specialized and proprietary getting  experts to open up about it is like asking an oyster tif you can see it's pearl and expecting them to respond

[Mike Brooks]

A real well built gun will shoot better but it depends on the shooter. There are three measurements to consider. Cast off or on, drop, cant, and pitch.  Cast off or on is the least important. Look them up. Anybody who shoulders a real well made gun will have an awakening.

The most critical in my opinion is drop at the comb. Pitch wasn't paid alot of attention to in colonial america, but they did seem to do alot with cast off. Pitch is important for modern shotguns not so much for old KY rifles. "Most" old KY's had BP's at 90* to the comb.

 It's all important to a degree but it all goes out the window when you're building KY rifles true to form and copying originals. You get all goofy with pitch and drop and you KY rifle will end up looking like a modern bolt gun.

 When I want to pick up a nice handling gun I'll pick up an english rifle or shotgun from about 1840-1920.

[jerrywh]

Mike is right on those English guns. The best handling gun I have is a English built shotgun from about 1870. It's a 10 guage.

[Stophel]

"Best handling" is quite subjective.  I'd rather have a German rifle from 1730...  With LOTS of cast off. 

[Obi2winky]

When trying to look up how to measure fit for a stock, I came across these two pictures.
I'm trying to understand how measurement C works for the cast off, since the instructions has a few typos that are confusing me.
Could someone explain is to me?

[Stoner creek]

No wonder you’re confused! So am I and I’ve got a high school diploma. What the heck is all of that garble?

[Daryl]

Obi2 - The picture does not consider face shape across the jaw line, cheek bones, etc. These are mostly important concerning cast off or cast on, which is also tied to drop at the comb and heel.

Jerry, I have an 1870-is English 12 bore that points like something that should be illegal, it's so perfect!

[Obi2winky]

Any resource to get the right stock fitting?

[alacran]

As you can see in the picture, this supposedly applies to modern rifles.  But I even doubt that. for grins I measured what my pull length would be according to picture and chart.  It came out to fifteen inches!  I would have to grow a mighty long finger nail on my trigger finger to be able to shoot any rifle with that long a reach.

[L. Akers]

Any resource to get the right stock fitting?

Gunfitting by Michael Yardley

Somewhere I read that proper fit of the gun is critical in a shotgun but not so much in a rifle because the shooter generally has time to fit himself to the gun.

[flehto]

To start.....perhaps "gun fit" is an overblown subject and the reason I say that is because my Dad and 2 buddies have ruffed  grouse hunted together  for 40 some yrs and we all used Rem 870s pumps w/ 26" bbls bored imp cyl. These were used as they came out of the box and during high cycle yrs, many bag limits were shot w/ this shotgun which had zero cast off or on. Grouse require a very fast mount w/o thinking. or adjusting......just mount and shoot.

I've been building spec LRs for many yrs and I'm fortunate that what fits me, fits most men. I always start w/ a 13-3/4" LOP and use my squirrel LR as an aid  to lay out the stock architecture . Yrs ago, I traced the buttstock profile of a Shuler BC  in RCAl and enlarged it to some dims listed for that LR.....w/  the exception of the LOP which I increased and then compensated for.....all the BCs mount nicely  as do the Lancasters I build. W/ all the spec MLers I've built, never had a complaint about the stock fit.

So......w/in reason,  is stock fit that  important...especially in LRS?.....Fred

[Mike Brooks]

Here's what works for 90% of the guys I have built guns for in the past 40 years. Pull around 13 3/4", 2 3/4" drop at the heal, 1 1/2" at the comb. Cast off is cool but not  critical. This will be comfortable for most guys. When I'm building a large bore turkey gun I'll drop the comb down to 1 5/8" to 1 3/4" and bring the drop at the heel UP to 2 1/2" which brings the line of the comb to nearly parallel to the line of the bore....that goes well with a clubbutt stock style which is great for alot of recoil and shooting something standing still VS flying.
 None of the above works for Lehighs....I'm still lost on those!

[oldtravler61]

  I just like a gun. That when the butt end hits the shoulder. The bead or sights better be their. That's a gun for hunting or target. But when building a longrifle. Your making it to follow time honored lines.   See Mike's opinion above.. 

[Majorjoel]

I'm sure the science involved with fit could look like a physics equation on a black board. 

As for SIMPLE me,  I once found and bought a used custom made fullstock Hawken style flintlock rifle. This was close to 25 years ago.  The rifle fit me like a glove!  I could shoulder it quickly and my line of sight was right there.

I have used that rifles basic outline and dimensions to build several different styles of long guns over the years.  All of them turned out to my satisfaction!

[David Rase]

Poppycock is one word, correct? 
David

[James Rogers]

I repeated myself for many years on things related to gunfitting. I will say length of pull in and of itself means absolutely nothing.  It's the least important for an exact measurement.  It just needs to be short enough to mount in chosen clothing and long enough not to bust your nose with  your thumb. Once chosen however, all the important measurements are derived from it and you can't use the same drops, etc. on stock with two different LOPs and expect them to fit the same unless you are using a parallel comb. Most people that I have witnessed complain about cheek slappers had a gun that ALMOST fit them as far as drop. A gun that has the comb so low as to be miles away from your jawbone will not slap you because it is nowhere near full mount when you shoot it. A gun fitted well will allow a solid purchase on the comb and you will move WITH the gun st discharge.  If its close and your jawbone is just barely hovering over the comb when you shoot, you will get whacked. This is mainly for shotguns but is applied the same for rifles although one can twist themselves easier to fit into the rifle sights than can be had  with shooting flying with a shotgun.  Some of the more extreme versions of historical flintlock stock shapes are better suited to the first description to allow the school's characteristics to show and prevent the slap.

[Obi2winky]

Here's what works for 90% of the guys I have built guns for in the past 40 years. Pull around 13 3/4", 2 3/4" drop at the heal, 1 1/2" at the comb. Cast off is cool but not  critical. This will be comfortable for most guys. When I'm building a large bore turkey gun I'll drop the comb down to 1 5/8" to 1 3/4" and bring the drop at the heel UP to 2 1/2" which brings the line of the comb to nearly parallel to the line of the bore....that goes well with a clubbutt stock style which is great for alot of recoil and shooting something standing still VS flying.
 None of the above works for Lehighs....I'm still lost on those!

As an inexperienced guy, this is so far the most easy to understand.
(edited to comply with rules --tdg-)

[Mike Lyons]

I just blow up the pictures from the KRA disk and build them that way.  It takes the confusion out.

[Jerry V Lape]

The only way to get a well fitted shotgun is with an adjustable Try Gun and a lot of shooting under the eye of an experienced fitter.  And even then it is only an approximation as shooters make adjustments, knowingly or not, to their body configuration and stance.  More commonly, shooters conform to the gun which after enough practice works pretty well too.  A shotgun needs to hit where you are looking versus a rifle which hits where you align the sights. So about any rifle stock that gets you close to centering your eye behind the sights works pretty well.

[Dennis Glazener]

I think it's time to lock this topic, it keeps drifting into modern arms discussions and ALR is dedicated to side lock ML only.


Topic is locked.
Dennis