Thumb escutcheon identification

[Bill Weedman]

I don’t know what happened with my first post so.

I am trying to identify this thumb escutcheon from the Guebert site in southern Illinois and I believe the local name for it is Indian Farm. It is a Kaskaskia villiage that dates circa 1720-1760. There are manyFrench parts from this site but this escutcheon is unlike anything I have found in publications. Talking with Kevin Gladysz, who wrote the book on French trade guns, he has never seen a French design like this on a firearm. I suspect that it could be Dutch but can find no reference to this design.

I have over 100 parts from this one collection and we have another large collection to look at and a small excavation the state museum did in 1952 that was never published. We may even go to the Gilcrease museum to re-examine the material Mary Elizabeth Good used in her book on Guebert. Our goal is a comprehensive book on the artifacts from this site.

The people on ALR have a vast collective knowledge and if this design is out there hopefully someone on this site has seen it and give me a hand or a place to start looking.

Bill

[mr. no gold]

Bill, it was Mary Good's husband that did the work on the Indian Farm/Guebert site and he wrote the book in collaboration with her. The report/book is perfect bound with purple covers. It runs probably 200 to 250 pages. When compared with  today's archaeology it is somewhat lacking. Someone like Doug Scott, (Custer Battelfield Study) should be invited in to do a
proper and exhaustive study of the site. Since the state of Illinois seems to be somewhat blasé (or unconscious) about things archaeological, we probably should not hold our collectiive breath. I am still awaiting a phone call from the state HPO staff to report a Clovis site in southern Illinois. I phoned them about 10 years ago. Must have caught them on their coffee break. The fragment/object you have looks like a thumb piece for a firearm wrist, and interestingly the dolphins on French cannons bear a resemblance to your artifact.
Dick 

[tallpine]

I don't know if this will be of any help but the serpent head cock found on some German matchlocks looks very similar to your artifact. Might be a clue

[Bill Weedman]

The book is being done by Dr Margaret Brown, Robert Mazrim and myself. It will be as complete a book as can be written using one early minimal excavation and 3-4 surface collections. I measured about 1500 musket ball and examined over 100 gun parts from the first collection. Good’s book has done a decent history on the site but this book will be more of a book on the material culture filled with color plates of the artifacts.
We are a privately funded foundation to examine colonial Illinois and publish books. We will be using all the material excavated and never published and some local private collections.

I don’t have any books on German wheel-locks and that may be to early for this site. Very late 17th century would be the absolute earliest that I think would be found. Some of the French gun parts could be this early.

[mr. no gold]

Bill, please let us know when the book will be available. I, for one would like to have a copy. I think that it will be a very significant contribution to an important facet of French Coun, just before they fled west. If true, there really should be definitive investigations done, if at all possible. It may be that your efforts will result in a push in that direction.
Dick

[Bill Weedman]

FYI
Kevin Gladysz will have the first volume of his publication The French Marines in New France to the publisher in July if Covid doesn’t slow things down to much. I am waiting for that one too.

[mr. no gold]

Can you tell us where that book will be available? Since I grew up in the backbone of the French Country, (between the rivers) I have a strong interest in the history of the region. As far as I know, no one ever found any artifacts of that era, but that does not rule out any contact with the interior. Thank you.
Dick

[Bill Weedman]

Kevin is in Montreal but I do not know we’re the book will be published. It will probably show up on Facebook on sites interested in French Colonial History. If he give me a heads up I will post it on ALR (if I remember)

[T*O*F]

Do you have Dr. Balesi's book "The Time of the French in North America?"  I found it to be well researched.  He was a friend when I still lived in Illinois.  I've got a whole passel of books on French and Illinois history that I no longer use.  Je suis une habitant de la Riviere des Illinois but I no longer do that stuff.

[Bill Weedman]

Yes I have that book
I you are interested in selling some of your French Colonial books let me know what you have and price.

[ajcraig]

Any chance this could be the crowned white eagle in the Polish coat of arms? Although this fragment looks like a dragon with scales, some engravings of bird feathers can also look like scales. 

[Bill Weedman]

It is also close to the coat of arms of the French Dauphine (eldest son of the king of France) but it is very unlikely that design was used on a escutcheon.

[Craig Wilcox]

I would think Norse rather than French, with the serpent/dragon and the crown.