English sporting rifle questions

[Dale Halterman]

I am in the process of researching and collecting parts to build an English rifle loosely based on the Turvey rifle from RCA I. So far, I have a Chambers round faced English lock, a 28" swamped Getz barrel in 54 caliber, and some brass castings that may or may not be appropriate.

First, the wood. English walnut appears to be the logical choice. Are there any other woods that were used? And did they favor plain or figured wood? From the pictures I have, it appears the wood is plain and straight grained.

Now, the castings. RCA says the Turvey rifle has silver trim. Does this mean the trigger guard and buttplate are silver, as well as the sideplate and ramrod thimbles? Would it be appropriate to put a silver thumbpiece on a rifle with the rest of the trim in brass?

How about a muzzle cap? The Turvey rifle does not appear to have one, but I have pictures of another rifle that has a brass cap. Is this a function of the time period, the maker, or something else?

Should the bottom of the butt stock be round or have  a flat? Again, I have pictures of rifles done either way.

And the Turvey rifle has a sliding wood patch box cover, but this appears to be unusual for the mid 18th century.

Last (for now) can any one tell me where I can find close ups of original sights from the mid 18th century? None of the pictures I have show them clearly.

Thanks in advance for any help.

Dale H

[Dphariss]

I would use English/European walnut.
Forend cap is optional.
Its likely stocked very much like a English fowler of the period. Unless copying rifles from other places, like America, the English did not seem to use a flat bottomed stock.
There is no functional reason for it but the rifles made in England for the Indian trade were generally made like American longrifles since that is what the natives were used to.

Dan

[Daryl]

Here's a few of different dimensions.

; Here's one that fits beautifully. It's a smoothbore, ball and shot gun with only one sight. It's an 11 bore by H. Whal


 

[James Rogers]

Dan, summed up most of what I have observed.
For some earlier sporting guns try Great British Gunmakers 1740-1790 by Neal and Back.
More without nose caps than with. The English also made sporting rifles after the German fashion and some of those had the flat bottoms on the stocks but I like the handrail bottoms like the fowling guns.
Some of the nicer guns did not use spectacular wood but straightgrained. The fanciness was in the carving, engraving and lines
Silver thumbpiece is OK with brass mounts. Also Silver thumb and even a silver sideplate with iron for the balance of the parts was done. 
The sliding box does not seem to be that unusual.
The gun that Chambers sells as a kit seems to be a good example.

[California Kid]

Capt. Jas,
I believe we have a mutual friend in Jim Hash. Tell him Kid said HI!

[James Rogers]

Kid,
Yep, He's one of a kind!

[Elnathan]

There is a very similar English rifle by Benjamin Griffin shown in British Military Flintlock Rifles, fig. 1. It is difficult to tell whether it has a flat toe or not since it is not shown from the bottom, but in all other respects it is quite similar to the Turvey rifle, patchbox and all. The biggest difference is that it was made as a crossover gun, so the drop and cast off are much greater. Two different makers and twenty years of difference, but very similar...looks like a recognized pattern to me.

[J Shingler]

Great British Gunmakers 1740-1790 by Neal and Back.

Want a book that is hard to find or if you do can afford it is that one! One just sold for $250 that was Bill Kennedy's at Dixons. Well used but usable.

[James Rogers]

That's a great book as well as their other volumes. The Christie's and Sotheby's auction catalogs for Keith Neal's collection show some great color photos as well.

Here is a John Manton 1785 sporting rifle from the Neal collection.

http://www.bonhams.com/cgi-bin/public.sh/pubweb/publicSite.r?sContinent=EUR&screen=lotdetailsNoFlash&iSaleItemNo=2630761&iSaleNo=13738&iSaleSectionNo=1