Pistol Ballistics

[old dog]

I just finished a 50 caliber 9" smoothbore Rice Barrel pistol.  What kind of ballistics do you see with these particular barrels?  I am not a competitive shooter and I don't plan on competing in any duels.  I was surprised when at a National Shoot, the pistol shooters were driving the ball home with the use of a hammer.
Old Dog

[Daryl]

Should stay on a B27 silhouette target at 20 yards, maybe 25 or more, depending on your skill level?

[alacran]

I just finished a 50 caliber 9" smoothbore Rice Barrel pistol.  What kind of ballistics do you see with these particular barrels?  I am not a competitive shooter and I don't plan on competing in any duels.  I was surprised when at a National Shoot, the pistol shooters were driving the ball home with the use of a hammer.
Old Dog

Tight ball and patch combos require a hammer sometimes. Tight ball and patch combos result in tight groups.

[Daryl]

I use "fairly" tight combinations most of the time and have only ever needed the hammers on the ends for my forearms
for rifles, pistols or smoothbores I've used with cloth patched balls.

[D. Taylor Sapergia]

In 2009, Daryl and I attended the Gunmaker's Fayre, and Daryl was introduced to Don Getz.  When Don shoot Daryl's hand, he looked down and said, "Now I see why you don't need a hammer to load those tight combos!!"  It made us laugh, as you might have guessed, but in truth, all of us here in BC use a short starter and never a hammer to load muzzle loading firearms.  Once the starter seats the ball and patch in the muzzle, it loads very easily with a hickory wiping stick.  I haven't attended enough American events to be able to discern why anyone would require a hammer, but I've never seen one used up here in the Great White North..

[arcticap]

I like to use a wooden crab or seafood mallet as a matter of routine.
That began when one of my kids started muzzle loading at about 9 years old and for a while I was loading two guns, and wanted to reduce some effort and strain.
After a while, using it became 2nd nature, just like drinking skim milk, it's an acquired taste. 
After all, percussion shooters of rifles with drums already need to bump the stock repeatedly with the heel of their hand to help coax the powder into the drum for reliable ignition.
In that respect I think it saves folks from wear & tear on their hands and palms, avoid broken blood vessels, bone bruising and to help avoid unnecessary injury from making repetitive motions, perhaps even reducing future arthritis.
If a tool works and there's no rush to load, then why struggle by needing to smack the ball starter over and over again.
A crab mallet fits in a possibles bag, and the handle can also serve as a long starter if a person didn't have one.
But I'll often use the mallet with a long starter too.
It's only used for making light tap tap taps to an easier ramming depth.
And then when ramming it's easier to send the ball home with a single whoosh.
Some folks must be more macho than others. 

[Panzerschwein]

Love to see the old guys tapping away with their wooden crab mallets on the line.

[alacran]

I use "fairly" tight combinations most of the time and have only ever needed the hammers on the ends for my forearms
for rifles, pistols or smoothbores I've used with cloth patched balls.

I can start all my tight load combos without a hammer. However when shooting a 600 point pistol aggregate, with another 2 or three practice targets. you do create a lot of strain on your shooting hand. Since this competition is with one hand, you really don't need to tire it out.

[Dale Halterman]

We have been focusing on loading with a mallet and not addressing the broader question about ballistics.

Old Dog, could you be a bit more specific about what are wanting to know? Do you want to know about muzzle velocities, accuracy, stopping power, or what exactly?

Dale H

[arcticap]

I found some ballistics for .50 rifled pistol barrels.

From the Gun Digest Black Powder Loading Manual

Kennedy English Dueler (9" 1:29" twist, .010" groove, .490 ball & .012" patch)
Vol wt mv me vel energy (50 yds)
30 FFFg 31.1 776 237 677 180
30 p 22.3 712 119 622 152 Pyrodex

Kennedy Kentucky Pistol (9" 1:29" twist, .010" groove, .490 ball & .012" patch)
Vol wt mv me vel energy (50 yds)
30 FFFg 31.1 781 240 683 183
30 P 22.1 751 222 655 169 Pyrodex
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Lyman Great Plains Pistol
Barrel Length:  9"
Patch:  .015" Lubed Cotton

.50 Caliber - With Speer 177 gr. .490" Ball

Load            Muzzle Velocity/Muzzle Energy            25-Yard Velocity/Energy            50-Yard Velocity/Energy
FFFg Black Powder - GOEX

25 gr.              688 f.p.s./184 f.p.e.                                   568 f.p.s./123 f.p.e.                       514 f.p.s./97 f.p.e.
30 gr.              739 f.p.s./214 f.p.e.                                   618 f.p.s./149 f.p.e.                       549 f.p.s./116 f.p.e.
35 gr.              785 f.p.s./241 f.p.e.                                   651 f.p.s./167 f.p.e.                       578 f.p.s./124 f.p.e.

http://www.namlhunt.com/bphandguns.html

[Daryl]

Interesting. Does anyone have data for a .54 pistol?

[arcticap]

The Plains pistol has a 9 inch rifled barrel.

From the Gun Digest Black Powder Loading Manual

Lyman Plains Pistol
Caliber: 54
Rate of twist: 1:8"
Depth of groove: .0095"
Projectile: .530" 225 gr. Denver Bullet Co. round ball
Powder: GOI
patch: .013" pure linen
Luge: RIG
Ignition: CCI No. 11
Powder Measure: Uncle Mike 120

Vol wt mv me vel energy (50 yds)
30 FFFg 30.9 860 370 753 283
40 FFFg 41.2 952 453 819 335
30 FFg 29.6 743 258 650 211
40 FFg 39.5 856 366 749 280
50 FFg 49.5 926 429 803 322

[hanshi]

Tight loads are fine in rifles but loss of some hand strength make loading a pistol that way very difficult indeed.  The fact that most pistol loads are significantly lighter than powder charges used in rifles, patches tend to fare better.  .016" to .018" are still able to be loaded in my .50 pistol without undue stress.  Still, a short starter is used with this pistol same as with rifles.

[Daryl]

I find that as well Hanshi. My pistol loads are considerably lighter and with thinner patches than the rifle loads.
I have 2 bls. for my pistol, one with a cap lock in .45. I use a .018" denim patch with a .440" ball in that one with a mere 25gr. 3F GOEX.
In the "tight" (.530") .54bl. I use a .526" ball and the same .018" patch, but with 55gr. 3F due to the 60" rifling twist. Both are good shooting
accurate loads and both will shoot into 1 1/2" at 25 yds. rested. Many modern guns will not or barely do that with a Ransom Rest which is a type of machine rest.
I have made 2" groups at 35 yards with the .45 pistol (18" twist) using REAL bullets of 220gr., again, using only 25gr. 3F.
Same pistol.

[alacran]

In the "tight" (.530") .54bl. I use a .526" ball and the same .018" patch, but with 55gr. 3F due to the 60" rifling twist. Both are good shooting
Daryl that has to be one $#*! of a thumper.
You may want to try 18 to 20 grains of 3f with round ball on your.45 pistol. I have one with a 1in 20 twist and the other with 1 in 18 twist. they both shoot consistently 2 inch groups with one hand. I have shot 1 inch groups with either gun, that is if you exclude mistakes within a 10 shot group. I have shot 25 grains in either gun and they do not perform as well. Barrels are of different manufactures.

That is a standard NRA 25 yard repair center.

[Hungry Horse]

 So, if your not a competitive shooter, and you don’t plan on any duels, why do you care what the ballistics are on A smoothbore,  which is basically a piece of pipe?

  Hungry Horse

[Daryl]

The recoil of the 55gr. 3F load is similar to my .44 & with the same weight projectile.
It requires the load due to the 60" rifling twist.
The .45 does shoot well with 25gr. With it, I started at 20gr. and at 25gr. I stopped
as that seemed best. I'm sure I didn't shoot 15gr. or 18gr., but perhaps should have.
The twist in that one is 18" and is a GM bl.

[alacran]

Daryl one of my .45 pistols does have a GM barrel. But it is 11.25 inches long That might be why it shoots better with the lighter loads. When I shoot Swiss 3f though it I shoot 15 grains. I have another .45 pistol with a 9 inch Niemeyer barrel 1 in 15 twist that shoots best with 25 grains of 3f. So I suppose barrel length makes a difference.

[riflee]

  I recall hearing about folks that hammer home a lead ball without a patch.   I imagine it gets a flat nose to it.

Just wondering.....anyone shoot smooth bore pistol using lead shot loads for small game?  Wondering about getting some velocity with lead shot loads? 

[Ezra]

I have a pretty nice .50 smoothbore flintlock pistol built for me by my friend (and gun maker extraordinaire), Brad Emig.



I use ~ 35 grains of 2f, a spit lubed patch and .490 ball.  I figure I’m getting around 750 feet per second, give or take a bit.  Never pounded in a ball in my life.  I hit point of aim, give or take and inch or two, at 15 yards.  Being as how these things were made to clear a doorway, it’s more than adequate accuracy for me.  Actually, the ballistics are not that far off from a .45 ACP.

Ez

[Daryl]

Years ago, I tested buck and ball loads in my .54 bl.  I was using, I think, about 45gr. 3F, a .526" ball and 3 00 buck balls.
On a silhouette target placed 12 yards in front, the single ball would always strike the 10 ring (B27 target) and the 3 buck
would strike radially around the ball, equi-distant in in the 8 ring.