Gemmer Hawken

[Wyoduster]

Bought this gun a while back from a fellow in Canada .. I believe it to be a Gemmer Hawken .. Did a lot of looking and searching the web and even found one listed in an auction that the stamp is exactly the same. Whats your thoughts??

[rich pierce]

The stamp does not look right to me. The lettering looks huge. Not sure how many drum and nipple guns were made late by Sam or Gemmer.

[louieparker]

Wyoduster......Sorry to say but its not a Gemmer or a Hawken. You wouldn't see a brass trigger and plate on a Gemmer. If  yrou ever handled a true Gemmer Hawken you would see the workmanship is not even close to that of Gemmer .  In my opinion Gemmer was a more refined maker than Hawken.  I have seen fake Gemmer Hawken conversions of the Spencer rifle.. No doubt made by looking at photos.. The workmanship in some of these is horrible compared to Gemmer. Yet they sell...  There is more too a rifle than the name on the barrel... Sorry, but today beware of barrel marks....LP

[Tanselman]

Brass single trigger rifles are usually from New York... so is this another New York rifle modified to look like as a more important [i.e. valuable] rifle? Shelby Gallien

[Wyoduster]

Well the good news is I didn't over pay.. Bought it as an old rifle with the hope that it might be special ... But its OK... any possibility thats a Gemmer barrel on rebuilt gun? Just throwing out thoughts...

[louieparker]

I may have overlooked something . But I am wondering why you call it a Gemmer Hawken..  When  its marked Hawken ?  Ever who put that name on the barrel intended to pass it as a Hawken..  LP

[Gemmer]

I agree with everyone else, not a Gemmer.
I have a JP Gemmer and it is marked on the top flat “ J P GEMMER ST LOUIS “
It is iron mounted and looks like the original S Hawken’s .
The workmanship is equal to the guns produced by the Hawken shop in St. Louis.

[Wyoduster]

I may have overlooked something . But I am wondering why you call it a Gemmer Hawken..  When  its marked Hawken ?  Ever who put that name on the barrel intended to pass it as a Hawken..  LP

I guess because I have seen one on the auction block( https://www.invaluable.com/auction-lot/hawken-st-louis-percussion-halfstock-plains-rifle-370-c-84f499894f# ) almost Identical w/same stamp.. AND according to this months MuzzleBlasts for about two years following the sale of the Hawken shop This artical even mentions that JP put the Hawken name on the guns..

[mountainman70]

Duster, I bought one marked identical from a guy in Spokane ,was on an antique walnut half stock with period parts. Don Stith thinks its a redo from back in the early 60s. I didnt pay too much for mine,and have shot it. The hook breech plug is from the 60s, and properly done.
 I may get some pics up for long. How you getting along up there? Best regards, Dave F

[moseswhite]

Nothing about this rifle is Hawken or Gemmer just like Louie noted ! You might compare the barrel stamps with the Missouri Gunsmiths book or Jim Gordons books or john bairds books . In the last few years there has been quite a number of fake Hawkens sold . There is a guy in Arkansas cranking them out at a rapid rate ! You also might note the fresh red rust in the bottom of the letters and the letters are the wrong size and wrong style . Ask for help and do your homework before you make a large purchase . It can be a hard lesson . Most of us have been there a time or two !