Old ramrods

[rollingb]

I've got a question for everyone who collects antique rifles and fowlers, how were the ramrods designed?

Were they just a simple wooden rod with no brass ferrule on either end, or maybe just a bit "flared" on one end?

I can't picture "ramrods" from 200-300-400 years ago looking like the ones we use today with brass ferrules and jags.

TIA rollingb

[Dennis Glazener]

Here is an original from a late 1700 or early 1800 Augusta County VA flint rifle.

 The rod itself is straight grained hickory. No jag was with the rifle but Jim Web told me that it probably had a worm like the one shown below:



I have a late 1830 early 1840 flint rifle made by James Gillespie of Henderson County NC that also has the original ram rod. It too has an iron tapered end similiar to the above ram rod. That rod is also straight grained hickory, but the other end has a jag carved into the wood. It too is missing the worm/jag for the threaded end. Sorry I have no photos available for it and right now I do not have access to the rifle to take photos.
Dennis

[smokinbuck]

I have a couple of Fowler and an old double that have brass tulips on one end and. Concealed screw tip on the other. All are on original guns. Most rifles have straight or tapered, rods with spiral grooves, or none, cut on one end.

[Avlrc]

Here is an old one.  Came  with a  rifle that was made 1820 circa.  Not sure if the ramrod and jag is that old, but looks pretty old.

[Dennis Glazener]

Wallace Gusler once showed me a 3/4 stock gun that had the ram rod even with the end of the stock. Maybe another 12-14" of barrel showing after the end of the forearm. He pulled the rod out and showed me how it fit the full length of the barrel. The baleen ram rod was flexible and the ram rod hole went under the lock, down into the wrist/butt stock. This allowed the rod to be flush with the end of the 3/4 length forearm. I believe it was a European made Fowler.
Dennis

[rollingb]

Thanks fellas,.... I've read where beaver trappers heading to the Rockies would sometimes stop and cut "wiping sticks" whenever they happened across suitable sticks, and they even traded those "wiping sticks" at rendezvous. No where had I seen any mention of "ferrules or jags" in those accounts, so I was under the impression they may not have been a big deal, or even needed, when loading/cleaning their weapons.

Many thanks for the replies and pictures.

[D. Taylor Sapergia]

I noticed that although many thousands of guns were made here during the muzzleloading era, a very small percentage of them remain extant.  I suspect that many of those that didin't survive were poorly maintained, through perhaps laziness or poor cleaning technique and equipment.  I have no wish to emulate that part of history.  But suit yourself.

[Seth Isaacson]

The one with my rifle has a brass ferrule at the ramming end and a tapered iron section on the other end. Many other originals I've seen are similar, especially the brass ferrule on the end. I've seen many guns with just plain hickory rods. Some of these are of course replacements. Lot of English guns from the 19th century have brass tips on each end and the rear end has a piece that threads off and covers a puller. Similar to this:

[blienemann]

Hi Seth, here are both ends of a "near new" Christian Oerter rifle ramrod from 1774, and I've seen the same tips on several other Oerter rifles.  Records mention "brass loops" on the loading end of ramrods, from the German tradition of bone, but now brass, for strength.  The small end of rods carried either a "single or double scraper" or tow worm, which probably meant single or double tines.  Reversible tow worms are sometimes mentioned.

The approach varied considerably, with the iron tip for worm very common on the small end, but often the loading end flared as large as possible, might be cupped but left plain wood.  Like so many questions, you need to study time and location, and the variety that we find.  Bob

[Seth Isaacson]

The rod with my Krider rifle has a longer iron section on the rear end. The ramming end is a brass band with the front end open not closed like Blienemann just showed. Like this one: https://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/10/Screen-Shot-2015-10-25-at-4.56.28-PM-600x374.png

The wood is somewhat cupped on mine within the ferrule rather than flat like that rifle. I have definitely seen other rifles setup with brass tips like Blienemann shared. I have not paid particular attention to ramrod tips in general. Though now you've put it on my mind.

[Daryl]

Here is an old one.  Came  with a  rifle that was made 1820 circa.  Not sure if the ramrod and jag is that old, but looks pretty old.

I have one just like that, but was from a SxS cap lock shotgun of English make. I am very sure if their locks crossed the pond, so-did their accouterments, to be used and/or copied.

[Avlrc]

Daryl, Very possible, or maybe most likely they did.

[Pukka Bundook]

Earlier 18th C English rammers had a worm on the small end, uncovered.  These were the style of the corkscrew or tow worm.
The other end nearly always had a brass or horn cap for ramming. This was bell-shaped.
In the later 18th C, the ramrod usually had a worm with a cover that was removed for use, and retained the flared brass or horn rammer  on the other end.

Here are details of a ramrod from the early 1500's;






The last photo is the kind of uncovered worm aften found on earlier 18th C arms, but in this case a pistol rod, and with the "darwing pin" ramming end.

Best,
R.

[Jerry Girard]

Seth I.
Could you post photos of your Krider rifle? I have a small collection of Krider items and have done some Krider displays at the Allentown Forks of the Delaware show. The following photos are of some pre-1850 rifle ramrods: R. W. Houghton, Norway, Maine; John Krider; H. L. Leonard target rifle, Bangor, Maine and a Worchester County, Mass. rifle. Regards to all, Jerry

[Dave Tercek]

This is another old one from a Bedford County Joseph Mills rifle.

[smart dog]

Hi,
Here is an original rod from a 1760s English fowler.


dave

[Dennis Glazener]

Hi,
Here is an original rod from a 1760s English fowler.


dave

Dave does the work screw on or is it brazed on?

[smart dog]

Hi Dennis,
I don't know.  The ferrules were formed from sheet iron and I believe soldered, not brazed.  I don't think the strength of brazing was necessary.  The seam down the ferrule is so tight and clean and only a very little bit of solder still shows.  I am not sure how the worms were attached but I have an idea they were coarse threaded like a wood screw, screwed into the ferrule and then soldered.  They do not appear to be removable.

dave

[Dennis Glazener]

Hi Dennis,
I don't know.  The ferrules were formed from sheet iron and I believe soldered, not brazed.  I don't think the strength of brazing was necessary.  The seam down the ferrule is so tight and clean and only a very little bit of solder still shows.  I am not sure how the worms were attached but I have an idea they were coarse threaded like a wood screw, screwed into the ferrule and then soldered.  They do not appear to be removable.

dave

That's what I was wondering, if they were fixed or removable/changeable. Was trying to figure out if they might have changed the worm to some type of flat "tamper" for seating wads/cards. I made my fowler using interchangeable tips, figured they were not period correct but they work well.

Thanks
Dennis

[Feltwad]

Enclosed are a couple of images off shotgun ramrods in different types of hardwood  showing the brass tip and the opposite end the worm
Feltwad

[Niall]

Hi Dennis,
I don't know.  The ferrules were formed from sheet iron and I believe soldered, not brazed.  I don't think the strength of brazing was necessary.  The seam down the ferrule is so tight and clean and only a very little bit of solder still shows. 

dave

These look to be brazed,from a pair of holster pistols;





Regards,

Niall

[smart dog]

Hi Niall,
Nice photos and it certainly looks like brazing.  On my two fowler rods the seam is so neat and tight almost no solder or brazing shows and you have to look hard for the seam.  What bonding alloy does show is gray in color.  Perhaps they used both brazing and soldering depending on the maker.

dave

[Niall]

Dave,

Possibly,...... but why solder when you have the skill to braze.....also,I don't know what soldering alloys they had back in the day or what soldering options they had or used.It would make an interesting topic for discussion if some folks had the relevant  knowledge.

Niall

[WKevinD]

These are some of the tips I use on my ramrods, 5/16 x 2 1/4"  with 10-32 threads.
I tried rolling and brazing but that's beyond my skill set if I want them usable.
Kevin

[Howard]

  Here are a few of my old rammers & tips from old original rods.