Author Topic: English horn Powder flask. (Read 2497 times)

Pukka Bundook · « **on:** December 27, 2020, 05:37:09 PM »

Gents,
I'm posting this for Tim C, it's a wee small flask, and Tim seems to know more about it than I do.
All I knew, was English and 18th C.
Overall height is a shade over 4 3/4".

Any extra light you can shed on it would be most appreciated, Tim and all!

Tim Crosby · « **Reply #1 on:** December 27, 2020, 05:54:32 PM »

Thanks, the work involved in one of those is amazing.

Tim

Pukka Bundook · « **Reply #2 on:** December 27, 2020, 06:04:22 PM »

Any further info on this type, Tim?

I always wonder how they cut the threads without splitting the horn, as horn is somewhat flexible.
I have tried threading horn, but results were Nothing like this!

Tim Crosby · « **Reply #3 on:** December 27, 2020, 08:16:19 PM »

Wish I did know more. Here are some more examples.

https://www.bing.com/images/search?q=queen+anne+powder+horns&qpvt=queen+anne+powder+horns&form=IGRE&first=1&tsc=ImageBasicHover

Tim

Craig Wilcox · « **Reply #4 on:** December 27, 2020, 08:22:48 PM »

Richard, I think some long hours with a fine triangular file for the male thread, some sort of scraper for the female?

Really, it could possibly be done with taps and dies, with repeated back and forth every 1/4". A whole lot of repetitive work for sure.

If I had those taps and dies, I would give it a try. Alas, due to my avoiding as much work as possible, the horn I am making will have brass fixtures fore and aft. Going to have to remember to take and post some pictures. Currently making a pair of moccasins, maybe a post on them? Nah!

Tim Crosby · « **Reply #5 on:** December 27, 2020, 08:46:28 PM »

The whole thig is a mystery to me, shaping the horn is one thing, cutting the threads is not easy I'm sure. There are a couple of guys on the site that have made these before, ley's see if they see this and comment.

Tim

mr. no gold · « **Reply #6 on:** December 27, 2020, 09:42:14 PM »

It appears that this might qualify as a variation of a 'Queen Anne' flask. The top, or cap certainly looks like those on the larger sized QA flasks, but the body is most unusual. Have never seen one with the screw off, removable bottom. All the ones I have seen have a fixed wooden bottom of wood, nailed or pinned like any other horn.
This one probably dates easily to the 1700s and could been put to a variety of uses for dry, granular things like salt, pepper, sugar, and even gun powder. It is very finely made and it took a lot of imagination and skill to produce it. Thank you for showing it here for all to see, Quite unique, I would have to say.
Dick

Pukka Bundook · « **Reply #7 on:** December 27, 2020, 10:55:38 PM »

Thank you for the reply and link, Tim.

I do have a few of the regular flat-based "Queene Anne" flasks, but only this one shaped as it is.
One with a wooden base is marked on the base; "N Cundy, (or Candy) June 5- 1789.
The manner in which this is carved leads me to believe the date is genuine.

Craig,

The precise manner of these threads has me believing they were mechanically cut, with tap and screw -plate, but How I do not know. To me, it would appear that the horn must be placed into a tight fitting receptacle whilst the threads were cut, (and before the outside shape formed) as horn will expand under the influence of the cutter otherwise.
People knew a Lot back then! :-)

Dick,
What convinces me that this is a powder flask, (and I might be wrong!) is that the top is exactly the same as those on the usual Queene Anne flasks, being a measure as well as closure, apoart from being a slightly different shape owing to the flask shape.
I Do have a photo I will attach of another very similar, I found on -line, but do not own.
I'll look for it now for you Dick.

Pukka Bundook · « **Reply #8 on:** December 27, 2020, 11:02:15 PM »

Here is the similar, but on looking again, it is not the same. Appeaers to have a flat base, but is apparently round, rather than the usual oval and tapered flask.

The second photo is just the normal tapered type, and its pal it came with, when it came to live with me.

Maybe the flask in the top photo Has a threaded base, but this is the only photo I have. No sign of nails or screws...

mr. no gold · « **Reply #9 on:** December 28, 2020, 09:28:48 AM »

PB, you have a good eye and no small amount of good fortune. I see that you are quite well acquainted with the QA horn/flask. That style is very appealing to me and I always look at them
at the shows and such. I don't own as many as I would like, as they mostly are a tad pricey. In London over by Russell Square there is an antiquarian, and he had a very fine QA flask for some L600. I didn't buy it but have always remembered it. Thanks again for bringing out the photos and gratitude to Tim Crosby for bringing out the montage photos of these horns. That too is worth spending some time looking it over.
Dicki

Tim Crosby · « **Reply #10 on:** December 28, 2020, 04:36:23 PM »

Quote from: Pukka Bundook on December 27, 2020, 11:02:15 PM

Here is the similar, but on looking again, it is not the same. Appeaers to have a flat base, but is apparently round, rather than the usual oval and tapered flask.

Is the balubas bottom on this one threaded?

Thanks, Tim

j. pease · « **Reply #11 on:** December 28, 2020, 05:07:16 PM »

I have several of the flasks in the first picture, there has been speculation on what they are. None of mine have evidence of black powder in them. They are made on a lathe and the treads are chased. This is also way Queen Ann flasks are made. The first picture in the second set is an ink horn. Theses come in many sizes and shapes

Pukka Bundook · « **Reply #12 on:** December 28, 2020, 05:21:56 PM »

Thank you for the replies.
Tim, as this horn is not mine, I can not say, but Mr. Pease says this is an ink horn, so unlikely to be threaded.

Mr. Pease,
Thank you for the information.
The one in the opening post came with the usual grey dust of black powder in it, but that could have been from any time in its life.
The suspension rings would infer use of something to be carried on the person, and as there were no long-hunters in the UK, a very positive nod still goes (in my mind) to gunpowder, as the measure is the same as on the standard Queene Anne types. (salt, sugar etc. not carried on the person),and as most salt was somewhat damp in the pre-iodized days, an open salt dish was used, rather than something with a narrow neck or spout.

Mr. J Pease,
I'd very much appreciate seeing your examples of the type in the O-P.

Dick,
I see these 'normal' Queen Anne occasionally at very reasonable cost, and will keep my eyes peeled for something for you.
A pal in the UK can ship for me.

mr. no gold · « **Reply #13 on:** December 28, 2020, 08:33:04 PM »

Thank you PB. I would be much obliged to you if some QA flasks were to come my way. The information regarding the use/or possible uses of these flasks is much appreciated, too.
Dick

Pukka Bundook · « **Reply #14 on:** December 29, 2020, 04:11:43 AM »

Will PM you Dick.

Pukka Bundook · « **Reply #15 on:** December 30, 2020, 06:04:54 PM »

Found I had a photo of one similar to the one in the O.P.

No details, but saved from an auction site....

The one below is just another I missed at auction. :-)

j. pease · « **Reply #16 on:** January 02, 2021, 05:05:10 PM »

I have not been at home but I found these pictures. First is a flask like you posted. No one I know has been able to pinpoint where they were made or intended use. The second is an ink horn. Ink was keep in top compartment and the lower compartment was a sander

j. pease · « **Reply #17 on:** January 02, 2021, 05:08:52 PM »

Pukka Bundook · « **Reply #18 on:** January 02, 2021, 08:26:00 PM »

Thank you for the photos, JP.

Re. the compartmented horn for ink. Thank you. Never seen one with compartments!!

As for the first one you show , I'd say Very likely made for powder, (gunpowder) as it has to have beenfor dry goods, with the screw-off filler end, and with the cap also being a measure that is made exactly like the Queen Anne powder flasks. I'd say nearly dead certain.

Thank you for adding new and interesting pieces to this thread!

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Author Topic: English horn Powder flask. (Read 2497 times)