Fancy pistols?

[Scota4570]

I am planning a Monton-esque pistol.  The breech around the touch hole is recessed on originals.  My planned barrel is 7/8 AF.  If I make a patent breech could  I tuck the pan into the breech as original?  Can I do this at all with an L&R 1700?  If I thin the boss in front of the pan will it work?   

Or, were the original locks made completely different to achieve this?
 

[David Rase]

I don't see that working because the back side of the bolster when mated up against the flat of the barrel regulates the thickness of the forestock..  If you recess the breech, the lock plate will set too close to the the side barrel flat thus not allowing you to properly shape your forestock.  Also, the wrist will end up being too narrower.  You would need to thicken up the bolster the   amount of the recess as well as the pan cover.  My two cents worth.
David

[Scota4570]

If I thicken the pan-bolster area then the frizzen will not be wide enough.  Do I add to the frizzen or make my spacer with a tunnel?

What was the reason for this feature on the originals?

[FlintFan]

If I thicken the pan-bolster area then the frizzen will not be wide enough.  Do I add to the frizzen or make my spacer with a tunnel?

What was the reason for this feature on the originals?

Functionally, it makes the distance to the powder chamber shorter.  Cosmetically, it allows for a slimmer profile across the breech.

[smart dog]

Hi Scot,
They were made by filing a step into the bolster by the frizzen screw as you suggested.  I don't think the bolster on the L&R lock is thick enough to allow you to do that and still have enough threads for the frizzen screw.  Not all Manton pistols had recessed breeches so a small chambered breech without a recess would be fine.  Unfortunately, the L&R lock makes an awkward looking pistol if the pan is level with the barrel.  The nose tilts down because of the curve on the bottom an you end up with a distinctive "knuckle" formed by the lock molding around the front of the lock.  The lock is also too long to get the right architecture.  You might be better off using Rice's "Nock" lock.  If you are trying to make dueling pistols keep in mind they were pretty plain guns but with the highest quality workmanship, finish, and technical function. The stepped breech moves the pan closer to the powder in the powder chamber, which also has a liner of gold or platinum.  It also allows the stock to have a cross section shaped like a vertical oval through the handle, which fits the hand nicely.     

dave

[kutter]

Completely remove the matrl from the lockplate around the frizzen screw on the left side of the frizzen so you can move/push the lock assembly right up against the bbl flat (or the breech flat).
That'll allow the entire lock to be recessed inward.

Then reverse the frizzen pivot screw that orig threads from the inside of the lock. Run the screw from the outside of the lock to the inside.
Turn the head off of the screw and make a headless screw out of it and clear the existing frizzen screw pivot hole so it passes through.
Put a nice thin screw driver narrow slot in the head.
Now D&T  the bbl flat where the new screw passed through and hits up against to accept the frizzen screw. The bbl flat is your new support on the left side of the frizzen'

You only need to D&T the blind hole in the bbl flat for a few threads. The screw is only a pivot screw. It doesn't hold the lock or parts in place.
I think the area where that frizzen pivot screw or pin is located is right over the threaded portion of the breech/bbl junction so as not to cause a safety concern.

Moving a lock inward may cause some issues with the mainspring hitting the underside bbl flats. That's something to work out with the bbl size and the lock structure.


Just my idea and thoughts from looking at the pics.

[Bob Roller]

I have modified the bolster on the L&R 1700 to fit an inset breech/touch hole and I made a
new pivot screw with a threaded head so blind hole tapping is not needed. I think I removed
about 1/8 of an inch.
Bob Roller

[smart dog]

"Moving a lock inward may cause some issues with the mainspring hitting the underside bbl flats. That's something to work out with the bbl size and the lock structure."

Which is why the bolsters on these locks are very wide vertically so the upper leaf of the mainspring is kept low on the plate, or the mainsprings are shaped like this:


Joe Manton locks have the frizzen screw head on the inside of the bolster not on the outside.

Why not just buy the series 531 lock or a right hand series 570 lock from TRS?  They will get you where you want to go much better than the L&R lock.  By the way, you could forgo threads for the frizzen screw like the Rice lock.  The head of the pivot rod is on the inside of the plate but there are no threads.  It is held in place by the barrel.  Therefore, you could thin that section of the bolster on the L&R lock leaving just enough thickness to accommodate  the counter bored head of the pivot. 

dave

[Scota4570]

I am not interested in doing business with TRS.   

"You might be better off using Rice's "Nock" lock."   Jason Rice?  Any links to it? 

[sdilts]

It is actually Liston Rice. He sold the barrel business to Jason Schneider several years ago. Jason does not have anything to do with the locks. Here is a link to Liston's website:  https://www.buckridgeflintlocks.com/

[kutter]

If the thought of a headless frizzen screw with a small slot visible from the outside of the lock is offensive on a Manton style, then make the frizzen screw an unslotted pin that theads into the bbl/breech flat from the out side. The blind D&T's hole will be needed again but that's not a big deal.
No screw slot needed, just wind the pin into place and leave it there

Place the assembled lock in position in the gun while guiding the frizzen pin through the support and the frizzen itself.
Then install  the frizzen spring on the lock as it sits in the gun..

My whole idea is to elliminate the left side of the lock plate frizzen support and move the entire lock assembly to the left as far as possible to slim up the profile.

Mr Rollers experience of removing an 1/8" thickness and using an unthreaded pin with a head on it from the inside is likely the easiest way to the same effect.
I was just trying to get to the deepest possible recessed depth possible and that would be to remove that inside support portion of the lockplate all together as I see it.
Maybe it doesn't need to go to that absolute depth for the required effect. Too deep maybe ?? leaving the wood in front of the lock only the thickness of the plate, no bolster thickness  there anymore to add to that.

I really like that look of the recessed breech though.