Fitting a lock in a Hawken

[BrentD]

I have a Hawken style rifle with a Large barrel that I'm refitting with another lock. The original lock is pretty much junk, and a new L & R will replace it perfectly with a little inletting.   I will have to fit the patent breech to the bolster of course and, therein, lies my question. How carefully should they fit together?  Assuming I could approach a perfect fit, the lock plate would become part of the recoil-absorbing system which would not be a good thing I believe.  On the other hand a gap is a gap, and I don't like 'em.  FWIW this is a .54 roundball rifle that will see some heavy loads from time to time.

Is there a concensus about this fitting, especially to the rear surface of the breech? 

[Herb]

Fit it as closely as you can.  The tang should take the recoil, not the lock plate.

[bama]

I second Herb

[D. Taylor Sapergia]

Yup:  your metal to metal should be tight.  Yet the barrel should not put downward force against the lock plate.

[BrentD]

Thanks to all of you.  Snug it shall be, to the best of my abilites.

[snapper]

JB weld is a good gap filler.

Fleener

[BrentD]

Art, Only as last resort.  So far the wood inletting is going well.  I'm inletting the internals now. The barrel will come next, hopefully tomorrow.

[snapper]

Might be a good shot with that rifle if you have a lock that works.  At least it gives you a chance to see if you flinch.



Fleener

[BrentD]

One never knows.  Might shoot as well as my flintlock. 

Now the lock and its attending parts are all inlet to the wood.  Just need to drill and tap for lock bolt and then inlet the breech.  That will take me a day or two I suspect. 

I suspect I will  have to bend the hammer before this is all over.  Bend cold or hot?  That is going to be the new question.

I'd die of starvation if I did this for a living.

[snapper]

Heat it up and bend it.

Fleener

[snapper]

Heat it up and bend it with a beer.  Less stress for you and the hammer.

Fleener

[BrentD]

Bend it with a beer?  I like the idea, but admit I don't quite understand it.  I'm hoping it is not too far off, but I won't really know until I get that plate fitted to the breech.  Some quality time with my files coming up soon.

[Bob Roller]

What Herb says.If the tang /standing breech is solid and the breech plug REALLY fits so the joint is a fine hairline then the cut or scallop in the lock plate can be filed to a perfect fit without the whatever filler.The fit on that target rifle picture you sent to my friend Amanda* showed fine workmanship.Also heat the hammer but if you have an L&R lock another hammer is readily available.
* Whatever you told her got her interest  going in our activities and she wants to know more.I will see if she will sign on to this forum and start asking questions.She got some kind of recognition from her school board and said it was because of some of the info I have given her about people from my past and personal experiences.
Bob Roller

[T*O*F]

I bend them cold using a Crescent wrench for leverage.  Easy enough to tweak it one way or another.  If the hammer crook needs to be opened up a little, I use snap ring pliers as they spread instead of clamp.

[Herb]

I have bent a Davis hammer to the side, cold.  A friend did this and broke his.  He won't let me live that down.  I recommend bright red heat, especially if you have to lift the nose of the hammer.  I use a 9/16 box wrench to lift the nose.

[BrentD]

I may have to bend a little sideways,  but I'm expecting that a may have to tuck the nose in a little.  The later will almost certainly need heat.

[borderdogs]

You should take as much time as you need to inlet any part. I agree with what they said above: red heat for the hammer that was what I did with my current build.  Cutting the plate for the bolster isn't that hard define the width of the bolster on the plate and gradually take metal away. I have a milling machine and take most of the metal away with a round nose end mill then file the rest away to finish it off. Taylor makes a good point about not having the barrel put pressure on the lock plate. If you don;t take enough metal off the cut for the bolster and when you screw the tang down it can kick the bottom part of the lock plate out from the inlet. Its an intimidating job the first time but check everything twice before you start cutting the plate. If you screw up you can always buy a replacement plate from L & R. 
Rob

[BrentD]

Here is where I'm at now.

The fit is snug and a few more file strokes may be needed.

There is also something bearing on the back of the bolster somewhere that I need to sort out.  But to hot in the shop this evening, so off to the basement for brass prep.  Tomorrow,  I'll sort out the last of the lock issues.  I think this lock will require some tuning before I am done with it.  Perhaps some crude engraving and case colors as well, but I don't want to scare anyone with that.

[BrentD]

Forgot the photo.

[BrentD]

So, here we are now.  You can see how the hammer needs to be bent.  I need to bend the head of the hammer more than the shaft.  Even then, it will not be exactly right.  The hammer will not hit from directly behind the nipple no matter how I bend it. 

Right now, I am trying to figure out how to hold it while I heat it up and bend it. I don't want to just clamp it in a vice and mangle it. I could use lead or leather leather protection on the jaws, comma but they would melt or burn respectively.

Suggestions are always welcome..

[Bsharp]

My calculations are that you need 15 degrees of rotation.

Cut a piece of pie out of the neck, not all the way thru bend and weld.

[BrentD]

My calculations are that you need 15 degrees of rotation.

Cut a piece of pie out of the neck, not all the way thru bend and weld.

I love the idea, but welding is out of my wheelhouse completely. 

15 degree, eh? 

[borderdogs]

BrentD
You can bend it in but you will need to get it red hot and you have to have everything ready so you don't loose time and heat. If you try to use a vise you will get it to bend in but likely crush the wall of the cup. What I did was machine a cylinder or hollow rod that you can put the cup and nose of the hammer to protect it. Then put the hammer in the vise so the nose and cylinder are roughly parallel to the vise jaws. The cylinder is what you will be banging on when the nose of the hammer is red hot. I ruined a hammer figuring this out. The area just behind the nose of the hammer is what needs the heat when you put the cylinder on the end of the hammer it needs to go in just about to the curve. You don;t wale on it use a heavy enough hammer to just hit it enough to get it to bend. It takes time and a couple heats and testing but it works. The cylinder has to be tight and it has to be solid for most of it. Mine was 4" long and I used a 5lbs hammer.
Good luck
Rob

[Scota4570]

When it is hot enough it will bend like taffy.  You will not need to to force it.   

You do have an issue with the angle of the nipple and lock plate position.  It looks like the plate is to far foreword.  Ideally the striking face of the hammer should be 90* to the nipple. 

I also see you have an issue with the plate and molding.  Try to do something like is shown in the picture below.  The inboard part of the plate will match the barrel channel.  The outboard edge will be like the yellow line.  A progressive angle will connect the two. 

Maybe others will have a better idea? 



Mine came out like this:

[BrentD]

"hot enough" will be a little bit of a challenge.  Two propane torches are all that I have, short of building a charcoal fire.  But we shall see.  thinking about building a jig out of angle iron to hold it.  Needs more thinking however. 

Yes, I have a molding problem.  Low on my priorities right now, but when I get that hammer bent and polished, then it will move up near the top.  Something like some quality time with a chainsaw file might get it done.  I haven't really inspected it closely for curvature.  Right now, I'm just thrilled at how well it fits (other than the hammer reach).