Anybody ever try paper cartouches?

[Black Jaque Janaviac]

Or paper cartridges?

My son and I just rolled up a few paper cartridges to try in our muzzle loading rifles.  They were a pain to construct, however the loading was made very easy.

We rolled a ball in a dampened piece of 25% cotton vellum.  Then, after the first wrap I inserted a 1/2 dowel behind the ball and continued rolling through the second wrap.  I backed out the dowel about 1/2 inch or so and twisted the paper tight to the ball.  Then we poured 90 grains of FFg behind the ball after removing the dowel.  I finished the cartridge by twisting the tail shut.

Next I took a chunk of deer tallow and rubbed it over the "wasps waste" between the ball and the powder charge.  This filled the gap where the paper is twisted between ball and powder with tallow.  The cartridge was then inserted ball down into a block of wood with holes drilled in it.

At the range loading was as simple as pulling the cartridge out, biting the tail off, pouring powder down, then ramming the rest down.  Prime/cap, and fire. 

I wasn't expecting much for accuracy since the balls pushed down pretty easily but I was hitting pop cans at 40 meters offhand w/ consistancy. 

We only tried 6 or 8 - mainly because we didn't have time to make more.  I have no documentation that anyone ever employed paper cartridges exactly in the manner I did.  But hey. . . If I lived back then. . .

[BrownBear]

The Bess I picked up this spring came with a supply.  It certainly sped up loading with no accuracy penalty.  Looked like they were made with the old tracked computer paper, which I happen to have in large quantity.

[northmn]

Never tried them in a rifle.  They worked in a smoothbore.

DP

[Daryl]

I've been shooting paper ctgs. in my 14 bore rifle since about 1986.   I thought to use a slug or minnie as a fast second shot, however the additional recoil was more than I wanted to put up with. Too, the loss in velocity produced much more trajectory than allowable. I started experimenting with paper ctgs that had 2 wraps of about .003" printing paper over a ball that was .006" smaller than the bore. This brought the size up to where the ram-rod had to be closely choked up on to push down the bore.  As you can see in the photo, I made my ctgs. tapered.  Due to the pointed end, little of no powder is lost when biting off the end to expose the powder. The point is shoved into the bore, where the ctg. sits with the ball stopping it until the rod is removed from the pipes.  The rod is then used to shove the paper ctg. down onto the powder, which had already dribbled out of the ctg. The crumpled paper becomes a wad, which helps seal the powder gasses behind the ball. This works as never has the paper ignited, which shows no gas blowby.  The paper on the sides of the ball is engraved by the rifling, such is the fit. Accuracy is identical to cloth patched round balls and I could fire up to 10, with no wiping at any time, before a squib, 82gr. charge with wet patch & ball was needed to shoot a 'cleaning' shot. After this shot was fired, I could fire another 10 paper ctgs. As noted, they hit exactly the same as patched round ball, and shot into the same group at 100 yards, that being 1.2" to 1.5" for 5 shots fired of the bags.  I did not try lubing these ctgs. as they were for moose hunting in down to -40 (or colder) weather and had to be carried in my goose down parka's pocket.  Lube didn't seem to be necessary.

Both Bruce (BS2) and Dan (Dphar) have used the paper ctgs. in their bore rifles to good effect, giving same accuracy as patched round balls.  Antoher forum member, Buffalogun, I think, tried them in his .54 double rifle to good effect as well.

Since hunting season is upon us with colder weather to come soon, this is a very timely thread.

[VtBlackdog]

oh-oh....I feel a trip to the range com'n on

[Daryl]

oh-oh....I feel a trip to the range com'n on

I should also note, that with the lightest bullet my home-drilled minnie mould would cast, was 580gr., with a maxlength & weight of 1,200gr.  The lightest slug shot to just under point of aim at 50 yards, but kicked very sharply - too much for me.  The Lyman 730gr. minnie wasn't even tried, but I still have the mould. After making and trying the paper ctgs. I never looked at slugs again. The paper ctgs. allowed me to use WW Alloy for balls and save the pure lead for cloth patching, another plus.

[Artificer]

Daryl,

Your use of the highly tapered cartridge is brilliant.  Thanks for sharing that.

[Daryl]

Pleasure is all mine - I find the tapered ctg. sits in the pocket ball-down & fits the hand perfectly, making it easy to tear off the end.  Too, I use the glue sticks for joining the wraps of paper. Run the glue down the side of the 1/4 sheet of 11"x8" paper and roll it onto the mandrel. The glue sticks down the edge perfectly.  Then, I place a ball in the end and rub the glue stick onto the inner top surface and stick that onto the ball with a twisting motion, drop in the powder charge, more glue then fold the paper over onto itself.  For hunting ammo and a more secure hold, I use Carpenter's white glue.  After the glue is dry, I snip off the top end twisted 'tail' with side cutters.  I've carried these ctgs. in a coat pocket all hunting season without any damage to them. They are not fragile.

 The use of a leather disk capper and paper ctgs. reduces what must be carried when hunting to just that, a small leather tool bag with ball screw & jag, along with the capper and some paper ctgs.  If you might see grouse, add a loading block with pre-lubed balls and patches and a small flask in the other pocket with the tool bag.  The grouse really don't require 165gr. 2F and a WW ball for the kill, but will do the job if you hit them right.   We usually hunt grouse during the noon period in different areas than where we hunt moose, however, I have shot a grouse, spooked a moose to standing up, reloaded and shot the moose with the next shot - you just never know.

With practise, I'm able to load and shoot in 8 seconds without using a short starter and including capping and aiming.  Of course, the rifle's style lends itself to rapid acquisition of the target, being the ultimate in hunting rifle design.

[Black Jaque Janaviac]

Daryl,

Thanks for the posts and pictures.

I recently tried my own version of paper cartridges, and I am pleased to read your reports of success.

My latest experiments were successful.  I was hitting pop cans w/ regularity at 40 meters offhand.  Loading was greatly simplified and a short starter was not needed.

I load similar to the way you described: using the empty cartridge as a paper wad.  However, I twisted the ball to form a wasp-waste between the ball and charge.  I also left the leading end of the ball exposed.  I used the wasp-waste to hold some tallow lube which seemed like a good idea.

BUT constructing the cartridges as I did was a pain.  It was tricky keeping  the ball tight.  I think I'll try some your way. 

It's interesting to note that you don't see any depreciation in accuracy with the paper twisted closed in front of the ball.  I thought that would be an accuracy killer.

[Daryl]

For some reason, the paper above the ball has no effect on accuracy.  Perhaps it's shed upon the ball leaving the muzzle.  A friend has a deeply radiused grooved .75 and cannot shoot more than 3 paper ctgs. without wiping the bore due to fouling buildup in the deep grooves. My barrel, with 'square' rifling, has no such trouble - 10 being as accurate as patched round balls, which is excellent in that rifle - 1 1/2MOA and gives the same velocity as patched round balls too - 1,550fps, with the load I use. This shows little or no gas blowby. They are snug as noted, not loose as in a military ctg.  To get it started down the bore, you have to choke up on the rod so only the brass tip is out of your hand. A quick shove puts the ball down that far. Once there, about 1" below the muzzle, it can be seated on the powder in one push.

I thought I might try dipping the ctgs. in some sort of lube, but a lube soft enough to be of any use in softening fouling, would rub off as well as pick up lint and dirt from my pocket, so that experiment didn't go any further than thinking on it. Being able to shoot 10 shots without diminished accuracy was good enough for me.

 I haven't tried ctgs. for accuracy with light loads, only the heavy hunting load.  Light loads don't shoot well past 50 yards in this rifle, anyway.  It take additonal powder to shoot well at 100 yards and beyond.  Witness Mark's chunk targets - .50 cal, .495" ball and 90gr. 3F, equivalent to about 110gr. 2F & that was only 50 yards.

[Leatherbelly]

[quote}Of course, the rifle's style lends itself to rapid acquisition of the target, being the ultimate in hunting rifle design.

Ya ya ya, now you're really blowing gas past the tightened sphincter! LOL!!

[Black Jaque Janaviac]

Daryl,

Do you wrap the ball so that as the ball exits the bore the paper would spin off?

If this is the case, is it possible that the front of the paper jacket would twist open.  Then when it catches the outside air it would peel off the same way a cloth patch does?

[Daryl]

The paper is glued to itself, tightly fitted to the ball.  Note the tapered 'form' in my picture. Lay a ball in the cup on the end of the tapered pine 'form', then roll on the paper as if you were making a paper patched bullet.  therd the paper comes together, the glue line 'fixes' it at that point.  The paper is folded over the top of the ball and glued to itself, forming a cup, or brought up and twisted - your choice - I've made them both ways.

LB - the English Rifle by design is the ultimate in 'pointability' and fast shooting.  When you bring the rifle to your shoulder, the sigths are already lined up on the target.  The Jaeger designs are almost as good, but not quite.  Since you have neither of these rifles, I can readily understand your disbelief at my statement - shooting cumbersome, slow to align guns is all you know.  Shooting either Taylor's Jaeger or my Sporitng Rifle will quickly show you your folly.

Remember the 'duel' we used to shoot at our local rondy?  That .69 has never lost that event - 2 8" plates at 50 yards - rifle pointed down, not at shoulder, on comand, mount the rifle and shoot your plate.  A hit spins the other plate out of line of sight for the other shooter, thus he loses.  The English rifle is fired the moment the stock touches the shoulder. As the sights are already aligned at discharge, the ball hits the plate- the other guy loses the "duel".  As a matter of fact & past history, no matter who was shooting my rifle, they won that match.  Yeah- Im crowing, but it's the truth thbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbb!

[Leatherbelly]

  Nope,I have CF rifles and had shotguns like that, but you are right, not a muzzlestuffer I've owned has had a perfect fit. Not one. The quest continues...