Author Topic: Banding material scrapers?  (Read 4009 times)

Offline Hutch

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 164
Banding material scrapers?
« on: August 02, 2021, 12:52:00 AM »
Good evening y'all

I heard somewhere on here that you can make some pretty simple scrappers using banding material.  I grabbed a little bit from work the other day but I'm not really sure what to do with it at this stage.  I think if I understand it right it needs to be really flat on one side, then sharpened like a knife on the other then burnished on top to make a rolled edge? Pretty sure there's some tempering in there too.  I don't have any experience with that part either be it I got a torch and a willingness to learn 😁

Can anyone walk a newbie through this?

Thanks!!

Offline Tim Crosby

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *
  • Posts: 18149
  • AKA TimBuckII
Re: Banding material scrapers?
« Reply #1 on: August 02, 2021, 04:38:49 PM »
  You don't have to use heat on it. Cut a piece about 6" long to start, it should be as flat as you can get it. Lay it on a sharpening stone and with even pressure move it back and forth. After about 20 passes take a look at the side you have been polishing, if it is the same old dark colored strapping I've used you will see where the color has been polished off. You want to make sure all the edges are being polished, do the same to both sides. Now set it on edge and do the same to both edges, you can do the ends if you want. After the edges repeat on the sides and give it a try. I do not roll the edges on them but you can if you want. I think no edges gives a smoother cut.
 Hope that helps.

   Tim C.     

Offline Hutch

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 164
Re: Banding material scrapers?
« Reply #2 on: August 02, 2021, 04:55:55 PM »
Well that's a lot easier than I was expecting! Lol! Thank you for sharing!

Offline Metalshaper

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 604
Re: Banding material scrapers?
« Reply #3 on: August 02, 2021, 05:06:56 PM »
they work nice as an improvised wavy parallel if you need one. Just bend it into a zigzag and off you go. another benefit is they can be used on thin parts
and still fit between the vise jaws! I grab a few different widths from the pallets around work, just to keep on hand.  works for that one project that needs a weird size,
different my standard set of parallels..

<  or I cud just buy a couple sets that are adjustable?? ;)  >

Of course they work great as scrapers!!!  :P

Respect Always
Metalshaper/Jonathan

Offline Hutch

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 164
Re: Banding material scrapers?
« Reply #4 on: August 02, 2021, 06:07:24 PM »
I've seen parallels mentioned in a few places, what do you use those for?

Offline Metalshaper

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 604
Re: Banding material scrapers?
« Reply #5 on: August 02, 2021, 06:53:33 PM »
I own a litle Sieg X2 mini mill. I use it to make parts and such in my shop. along with my 1960 AA 6 x12" Craftsman lathe.
the parallels are use in a mill vise to hold a piece of stock above the vise jaws so you can remove material and hold it
parallel to the vise and mill table. There are angled versions, that allow for decently precise angle cuts < relative to the travel of the
XY table.> if you do your part correctly.

here is a breechplug I made in my shop.



Respect Always
Metalshaper/Jonathan

Offline Bob Roller

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 9451
Re: Banding material scrapers?
« Reply #6 on: August 03, 2021, 02:20:30 PM »
I've seen parallels mentioned in a few places, what do you use those for?

The parallels we discuss here are usually adjustable. I have 2 and 1/2 sets and they can be used for,as has been mentioned
to establish a height  or insertion into a "T"slot to establish the accurate width if there is a question.Milling machines benefit from these tools as well as vise jaws or plates on quickly removeable precision dowel pins that can establish instant angles for different jobs.These adjustable parallels are or were used in trade schools to teach micrometer reading in both decimal and metrics as well as depths and heights.I still buy measuring tools that are now obsolete like Vernier Calipers with decimal on one side and metricc on the other and micrometers by long defunct majkers that were active during WW2.I use one nearly every day made by "Union Tool Co". I bought it a few years ago at Friendship for $20 still in the box and checked it on a Brown&Sharpe one inch standard and a 1/2 ball bearing and it is right on spec.
   Learning accurate measuring has been a real help/blessing to many of us and while I no longer am deeply involved with it I have forgotten little and hope I never do.
Bob Roller

Offline WadePatton

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5282
  • Tennessee
Re: Banding material scrapers?
« Reply #7 on: August 03, 2021, 04:03:19 PM »
Back to scrapers for a minute. "Card scrapers" is the type we're making from odd bits of metal.  A nearly perfect 90 degree edge is sharp and will scrape, but it's not going to give you the nice curls you can pull with a rolled edge. A properly rolled edge is turned with a burnisher (or any roundish and hard enough metal you happen to use).  A super quickie bur can be raised by drawfiling lengthwise along the cutting edge, but it won't last long and may be rough rather than smooth.

It took me a few scraper sharpening sessions before I felt the bur being formed and now I can get a good rolled edge and such will make shavings rather than dust, and that's why we do it.

Paul Sellers (and many others I'm sure) makes some great tool sharpening and setup videos. Here's one on turning a card scraper sharpening:

 here's the title of the video: Card Scraper Sharpening | Paul Sellers_ Since we cannot see it here--or just hit the YT link.





Once you've seen the straight edge scraper, then here is his curved scraper sharpening video at his site (which has a pay wall but this one, and many others, are free):

https://woodworkingmasterclasses.com/videos/curved-scraper-sharpening/
« Last Edit: August 03, 2021, 04:16:47 PM by WadePatton »
Hold to the Wind

Offline Hutch

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 164
Re: Banding material scrapers?
« Reply #8 on: August 03, 2021, 04:52:57 PM »
Back to scrapers for a minute. "Card scrapers" is the type we're making from odd bits of metal.  A nearly perfect 90 degree edge is sharp and will scrape, but it's not going to give you the nice curls you can pull with a rolled edge. A properly rolled edge is turned with a burnisher (or any roundish and hard enough metal you happen to use).  A super quickie bur can be raised by drawfiling lengthwise along the cutting edge, but it won't last long and may be rough rather than smooth.

It took me a few scraper sharpening sessions before I felt the bur being formed and now I can get a good rolled edge and such will make shavings rather than dust, and that's why we do it.

Paul Sellers (and many others I'm sure) makes some great tool sharpening and setup videos. Here's one on turning a card scraper sharpening:

 here's the title of the video: Card Scraper Sharpening | Paul Sellers_ Since we cannot see it here--or just hit the YT link.





Once you've seen the straight edge scraper, then here is his curved scraper sharpening video at his site (which has a pay wall but this one, and many others, are free):

https://woodworkingmasterclasses.com/videos/curved-scraper-sharpening/

Actually I think I watched that one just the other day lol! What are you guys using for a burnisher? It just looks like a metal rod to me but I'm sure there's more to it than that.  That or people are charging an insane amount of money for a rod and a handle 🤣🤣

Offline Tim Crosby

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *
  • Posts: 18149
  • AKA TimBuckII
Re: Banding material scrapers?
« Reply #9 on: August 03, 2021, 05:23:25 PM »
 A Good screw driver will work.

   Tim

Offline WadePatton

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5282
  • Tennessee
Re: Banding material scrapers?
« Reply #10 on: August 03, 2021, 05:28:54 PM »
A Good screw driver will work.

   Tim
Yep, or a 3/8 drive extension--make that chrome work for you. I've also used the backside of gouges. Hard and smooth is all it takes as you're only moving a tiny amount of metal.


« Last Edit: August 03, 2021, 05:42:48 PM by WadePatton »
Hold to the Wind

Offline Hutch

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 164
Re: Banding material scrapers?
« Reply #11 on: August 03, 2021, 05:34:49 PM »
That sounds a lot better than spending $20-50 bucks! Lol!

Just regular ol' steel for the scraper itself? I think I got a piece of 16ga laying around somewheres still.  In addition to the banding material that is. 

Offline WadePatton

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5282
  • Tennessee
Re: Banding material scrapers?
« Reply #12 on: August 03, 2021, 05:52:28 PM »
I think medium to low carbon is what you want.  I've used stainless as well. Different thicknesses give different flex and some flex is good. Wider scrapers let you get your fingers up out of the heat zone-as you can really heat up a scraper when the going gets good.

And, blasphemish as it may be to the world of fine card scrapers, sometimes I use a saw chain guide bar (chainsaw bar). I have one that got itself pinched and ruined and happened to have a great bur on it (as they naturally do with wear-and then we file them off/true up the bar as regular maintenance).  It's great for big rough stuff and will likely last a long time.  What works works and that's how it is.  :P

Paul talks about feel and sound in his woodworking and such. Using his technique is when I first really felt the bur being turned. Once you get a feel for that, it's much easier to use any sort of technique to get there, and to work the curved ones.
« Last Edit: August 03, 2021, 05:56:04 PM by WadePatton »
Hold to the Wind

Offline Hutch

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 164
Re: Banding material scrapers?
« Reply #13 on: August 04, 2021, 03:31:34 AM »
Had a minute to play tonight.  Cut me a little chunk of banding material and in less than 15 minutes I was making shavings! You guys are awesome! Still gonna have to do a lot of playing with it to get it figured out but I'm pretty excited it worked lol! Thank you guys for all the advice! It may seem like a super simple thing to y'all but I'm pretty excited!

Offline Not English

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 590
Re: Banding material scrapers?
« Reply #14 on: August 08, 2021, 05:00:43 AM »
Hutch,

I'm not sure what you want in terms of scrapers. There's lot's of things that can be used as a scraper.  I've used the sides of a chisel, the spine of a knife and etc. The main thing is that the edge needs to be square. I use the edge at a slight angle. Broken hacksaw blades work extremely well. I don't usually burnish the edge, but that's just me. I also make small scrapers out of old screw drivers, the steel is usually pretty decent. Basically just clamp the end of the screw driver blade/shaft in a vice and heat it up quick with a torch so you can bend a 90 in it. Then grind a 45* bevel in the very end of the bent section. You should be left with a burr on the inside of the bend. It's the burr that will do the cutting. When grinding/regrinding, take care to not over heat the tip. Lastly, if you have access to a machine shop or know someone that does, try and pick up a few of the tool steel samples that the salesman give out. They are about 1" X 4" and thicker than card scrapers that wood workers are familiar with. They work great just as they are. A good friend whose's a very good gunsmith actually grinds the forestock shape/profile in these and then uses it to shape the forestock after roughly shaping it. I've seen him do a forestock in a couple of hours start to finish.

Dave

Offline bluenoser

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 794
Re: Banding material scrapers?
« Reply #15 on: August 10, 2021, 09:32:12 PM »
I have made scrapers from various materials - including banding material, and have found used handsaws to be the best source for material.  The better handsaws generally get thinner as they get further away from the teeth and closer to the spine and, consequently, are not the best source of material in my opinion.  I find the lesser quality saws having a constant thickness to work the best.  They can be cut with a good hacksaw and hardening and tempering are not required.

Here are a few of my more useful scrapers for detail work.



Some are hooked, but most are square edged.  I don't hesitate to move back and forth to suit the circumstances.
You can expand the image by clicking on it.
« Last Edit: August 10, 2021, 09:37:51 PM by bluenoser »

Offline smylee grouch

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 7739
Re: Banding material scrapers?
« Reply #16 on: August 12, 2021, 03:01:28 AM »
I have had some luck making them from used hack saw blades