ideal flash hole location

[yip]

  getting ready to drill my flash hole and need to know the ideal location, just below the frizzon or just a little  above?

[Mike Brooks]

NOT below the frizzen.

[Sidelock]

First off - laying the touch hole for me is one of the last things I do in a build - after the lock is completely set into the mortise, the barrel - you got it set where it's going to be, etc. etc. - only then will I set the touch hole location.  If - and that is a significant variable here - the line across the top of your pan is in the center of your side flat, scribe a line across the tops of your pan onto the barrel and then scribe another line perpendicular to that one that marks the center of your pan.  At that intersection center punch a point just 1/64 - to 1/32" above that - that should give your the "sunset" position that so many say is optimal.  The other item to consider, the size of the the OD of the touch hole liner if you are using one.  You do not want your touch hole liner to be positioned so high on the side flat that a portion of it breaks into that oblique upper flat.  It is not that it wouldn't work in that position, it just looks jacked up.  Hope this helps.  Wait for some other responses here, there are a lot of options on this subject.  Cheers! 

[EC121]

I measure where I want the vent and mark the spot with a light punch mark and light horizontal and vertical scratched lines.  Then I inlet the lock with the punch mark centered on the pan's top edge as a target.  Most of the time with some careful inletting it comes out right on the money. 

[Scota4570]

I put the liner in the center of the side flat.  The top edge of the pan is centered on the side flat.  The top of the wood barrel inlet is in the center of the side flat.  There is no locating it because it is preplanned before I begin inletting  the lock. 

Anything else looks goofie to me.  It thought is was supposed to be like that and anything else is an error to some degree. 

I could be full of "stuff".  Maybe a builder of high quality rifles will chime in?

[WadePatton]

As the others, I learned to build to the flashhole rather than to locate it after mating components. Placement of flashhole locates the lock which drives the rest of the locations.

[Mark Elliott]

Centered on the top line of the pan is ideal, but testing has shown that a little high or a little low doesn't matter much in ignition time.   As to the size of the touch hole,  I have found 1/16" to be ideal.  This is a little larger than the hole pre-drilled in the White Lightning liners that I use.   I have had problems with that initial touch hold size in high humidity situations.   

[Mike Brooks]

Take a look at the bottom of your frizzen. Some of them have a little hollowed out hoop-te-do. Your touch hole should go higher on those. I'd prefer no hoop-te-dos on any locks but you have to work with what you have. Ideally you should fill you pan full and level and the bottom of edge of the TH should set right on the top of the level of the powder. The flash instantly goes through the hole that way. If it is too low it will be below the powder level and the powder will have to burn some before the hole will be exposed so the flash can go through OR you can fill the pan 1/2 way and the flash will go through right away...BUT if you tip your gun to the left the powder will bank against the barrel and block the hole slowing ignition.
 I shot flint skeet for years and when a flint gun is set up right ignition is instantaneous.

[Jerry]

Take a look at the bottom of your frizzen. Some of them have a little hollowed out hoop-te-do. Your touch hole should go higher on those. I'd prefer no hoop-te-dos on any locks but you have to work with what you have. Ideally you should fill you pan full and level and the bottom of edge of the TH should set right on the top of the level of the powder. The flash instantly goes through the hole that way. If it is too low it will be below the powder level and the powder will have to burn some before the hole will be exposed so the flash can go through OR you can fill the pan 1/2 way and the flash will go through right away...BUT if you tip your gun to the left the powder will bank against the barrel and block the hole slowing ignition.
 I shot flint skeet for years and when a flint gun is set up right ignition is instantaneous.

Mike, I never ever fill my pan full of priming powder!

[Adrie luke]

 I found this

[Mike Brooks]

Take a look at the bottom of your frizzen. Some of them have a little hollowed out hoop-te-do. Your touch hole should go higher on those. I'd prefer no hoop-te-dos on any locks but you have to work with what you have. Ideally you should fill you pan full and level and the bottom of edge of the TH should set right on the top of the level of the powder. The flash instantly goes through the hole that way. If it is too low it will be below the powder level and the powder will have to burn some before the hole will be exposed so the flash can go through OR you can fill the pan 1/2 way and the flash will go through right away...BUT if you tip your gun to the left the powder will bank against the barrel and block the hole slowing ignition.
 I shot flint skeet for years and when a flint gun is set up right ignition is instantaneous.

Mike, I never ever fill my pan full of priming powder!

You would if you had your touch hole in the correct position.

[Daryl]

Every one of my flinters has the hole at the location given previously in this thread. I always fill my pans level with the bottom of the frizzen.
Works for me.

[smylee grouch]

If in need, that hoop-te-do can be expanded somewhat with a round stone. Go slow is the word.

[Dennis Glazener]

May have missed it but no one mentioned making sure TH/TH liner is far enough from breechplug face/threads to clear them when the liner hole is threaded. I am not sure I could ever get all this positioned correctly if I did not position the TH position prior to inletting the lock so once the barrel/tennons are in place I lightly centerpunch the TH position then position the lock around that mark.
Dennis

[Daryl]

May have missed it but no one mentioned making sure TH/TH liner is far enough from breechplug face/threads to clear them when the liner hole is threaded. I am not sure I could ever get all this positioned correctly if I did not position the TH position prior to inletting the lock so once the barrel/tennons are in place I lightly centerpunch the TH position then position the lock around that mark.
Dennis

That sounds like a good set-up, Dennis.

[David Price]

The information that Adrie Luke had,  I believe is absolutely correct.  If you are building a stick built gun you have the option to place the touch hole in the correct spot.  If you are building a pre cut stock your options are somewhat limited.  On a precut stock,  or kit gun, the first thing I do is to check where the end of the plug is and mark it on the side of the  barrel.  If the lock is already inlet and the pan does not line up with the touch  hole,  you may be able to move the barrel back a bit to correct the problem.  If the lock is too high you can lower the barrel slightly which also could correct the problem.  One thing that hasn't been mentioned is the touch hole should be centered in the center of the barrel flat, that is the thinnest wall thickness on the barrel. These are just some of the  little things that  makes the difference of  a flintlock firing without delay.

Just my thoughts.  DAVID PRICE

[Rt5403]

New to this I was under the impression that you put the TH liner as close to breach as possible without hitting the breach and then you move the barrel or the lock to fit. I ask because I have a Chambers new england Fowler kit ordered and need to know if I should inlet the lock first and then set barrel to that or inlet barrel then lock.

[Scota4570]

Given the ambiguous test results of prime amount and positions, I have to reinvent the wheel. 

I use a very small amount of prime.  I do not wipe out the pan often.  I do not poke the the touch hole. A small amount of 4F is dumped in the pan.  I close the frizzen.  I rotate the rifle on the bore axis by twisting the wrist. .  If I then open the frizzen the pan and touch hole are coated with a thin layer of 4f.  I almost never have a misfire of perceptible delay. 

About the only time I have a misfire is due to a used up flint or when I get so much fouling that the touch hole is blocked.  I have never noted any difference in lock time due to prime amount or position.  I noticed a big difference when a rifle has a junk lock vs a rifle with a quality lock. 

[Birddog6]

New to this I was under the impression that you put the TH liner as close to breach as possible without hitting the breach and then you move the barrel or the lock to fit. I ask because I have a Chambers new england Fowler kit ordered and need to know if I should inlet the lock first and then set barrel to that or inlet barrel then lock.

For ME, if I am drilling the hole for the vent liner, I am way past moving the barrel, lock, or anything for that matter. By now the rifle it Built & ready to test shoot it. (yes, I like to do that as it is one of the few times I will get to shoot it) I am way past moving anything & the rifle is "In the white"

2nd, I have yet to see a Precarved stock that didn't need the barrel moved back. ( Yes, for those of you that put the barrel in first then the lock, ya screwed up)

I put the lockplate in First (yes the lock is stripped) in 3/4 of the way so I know it is stable & not going fore or aft any, & it is exactly where it will end up. (On most precarves you have no choice of where the lock is going)

Then I pull the breechlug from the barrel & mark the end of the breechplug on the barrel (I scribe a very light line on the barrel flat) (The backside tip of a Exacto knife works well.  Light scribe, not deep)

Next I decide if I want the vent liner all the way in front of the breechplug or half way or vent hole barely in front of the breechplug face, etc.  I prefer my vent liner threads Not to intersect with the breechplug threads. (other don't like it that way & that is up to them)

 I lay a vent liner on the barrel flat so it is just off the breechplug threads & I scribe a line center of the flat & vertical so I now have a + marked on the barrel flat for the vent hole location. (We are marking the Center of the vent hole.)

Now I have the  stripped lockplate into the inlet & make a line in the bottom center of the flashplan with a sharp pencil. That line is the objective of the vent liner location as far as barrel depth into the rear of the stock is concerned.

Now lay a single edge razor blade across the top edge of the flashpan & will inlet the barrel back & up or down to get this + centered on the razorblade edge & the vertical line of the plus. I want the actual hole just forward & above the lines as shown.

Inlet the barrel back & up or down to achieve this location for the vent hole center. See artsy fartsy drawing below. 


I want the vent hole in the center of the flat if at all possible. I want the vent liner threads 1/64" off the breechplug threads.  (Some will argue the hole as to be Exactly in front of the breechplug face for the lock to fit in properly, because that is how it was done 150 yrs ago. I don't agree)

Once this is done, I put the breechplug back in & inlet the tang back int the stock.  Note it is important the barrel breech wood be solid & substantial. The Tang is not there to absorb recoil. It is there to hold the stock wood up to the barrel, that is all.

Probably a dozen dif ways of doing this, & I'm not saying mine is correct or the best. But it works well for me & has for dozens of rifles.

If I was building from a blank, I would put the barrel in first, & have it in & pinned, then I would inlet the lock to the vent liner location.
 

[Rt5403]

Thank you that helped me out alot.

[flehto]

Because a Bucks County LR should be very slim, the  necessary location of the lock and TH liner usually end up being higher  on the side bbl flat and haven't found any reasons not to do this.  The LR shown has a very high TH liner position and its ignition speed is the same as the traditional TH location on my Lancasters.

When squirrel hunting, the pan is filled somewhere between  1/2 to 3/4 full and because the LR is carried in numerous positions during a day of hunting, who knows where  the prime is in the pan.....but it always goes "bang" and I can't sense a difference in the ignition time.

Possibly Mike when skeet shooting needs quick and uniform  ignition and I sorta   agree w/ him, but again I mention my time squirrel hunting and the variable , unknown prime location in the pan when a shot is taken......Fred

[yip]

  though still in the rough and i couldn't wait till finished i installed the w/l flash hole liner, it don't look to bad

[D. Taylor Sapergia]

Yip:  cut away the wood along the barrel down to at least the top of the lock plate pan, exposing at least half of the barrel flat above the centre line of the bore.  Then you can reshape that lock molding around the nose of the lock.

[flehto]

YIP... the TH liner location is looking good....follow Taylor's suggestions on the  wood height along the fore  stock. If you look at my photo, the top line of the fore  stock  is quite a bit below bbl or side flat  center line.....a lot of the side bbl flat is exposed.....Fred 

[yip]

  Thanks guys! i'll do what you guys said. i haven't shaped the fore stock as of yet, i have to bring the wood down to make the nose cap look good, it's gonna be a feat.
   one more thing i can't see the picture of the flash hole on my computer, can't understand it, it happened to my last post also, any idea?