Local find. Thoughts? Opinions?

[Mike from OK]

I went to my local range today to test some handloads. After I finished I loaded everything in the truck and went in for my usual "spit and whittle" conversation with the range owner, gunsmith, and other patrons. The gunsmith, Scotty, is a friend of mine and he showed me this. This was found in the wall of a house in a nearby town and the gentleman who found it, brought it in to see what could be found out about it. It's in pretty sad shape but it must have been a fine gun when it was new... Every surface is engraved. Even the heads of the screws...

The smaller barrel appears to have been rifled, and the larger barrel smooth...


Several more to give an idea of what this gun looked like. The nameplate says WH Mitchell Seneca Kansas.





















A cursory search revealed that Mr. Mitchell was a pharmacist and person of some standing in his town. How the gun wound up hidden in a wall in a house in far NE Oklahoma is anyone's guess.

Mike

[OLUT]

Yes, it was once a nice "combination gun". Although this type was made in many areas in the 1850's and 1860's, most seem to have come from New York State (where they were often called Adirondack guns).  The most interesting part is the  seldom-seen cap box in the bottom of the stock. Is there any name on the barrels to help pin this gun down better?

[Mike from OK]

OLUT, none that I could find. I will probably go back tomorrow and take a closer look at it. Perhaps get more pictures too.

I too was puzzled by the patch of until I looked closely at the muzzle of the smaller bore and realized that it had indeed been rifled.

There was also a percussion shotgun found with it. Single barrel. Appeared to be about 20 gauge give or take.

I'll get some pictures of it as well.

Mike

[Spring Hill Bill]

I guess that putting guns inside the wall was the precursor to the gun safe.

Neat gun.

[Clark Badgett]

Guns found in walls of old homes does seems to happen a bit. Doesn’t seem to make sense to not be able to access your firearms. Does make me wonder if they had some sort of secret door that could be opened if needed, or maybe they were stolen and hidden away until the fuss blew over and then forgotten.

[Bill Paton]

Things can fall down from attic storage space to first floor between studs in old houses with no blocking between floors. Can’t find them or retrieve them until the walls are torn out. Maybe the European sliding wood butt trap cover is still in the rubble where the butt was sitting, but more likely was lost before the gun disappeared to the will of gravity.

Bill Paton

[Sequatchie Rifle]

That’s an excellent observation Bill!!!

[Mike from OK]

A little update...

I went back by the store the other day but didn't get to look at the gun. Scotty wasn't there and the gun was locked up... Plenty of customers doing last minute shopping so getting it out of the safe wasn't a priority.

I did get some clarification... the gun was not found in an actual finished wall. It was found tucked behind some framing members in the wall of an unfinished detached garage... Gives a little more insight on the overall poor condition... But still doesn't readily explain how it might have come to be there. But according to what I was told, the house and garage are both old enough that the garage may have been used to store a horse-drawn conveyance at one time.

Who knows.

Mike

[Ky-Flinter]

....... The nameplate says WH Mitchell Seneca Kansas.

I wonder if the nameplate originally said "ARKANSAS" but the "AR" has been worn off?  Would make sense proportionally.

The sliding patchbox is interesting.  I don't recall ever seeing one on a later percussion era gun.

[Bill Paton]

Ron,

It’s not uncommon to see original percussion German rifles with sliding butt trap covers.

Bill Paton

[Ky-Flinter]

Thanks Bill,

So many kinds of guns to study, and so little time.  Do you think this one might be from Germany, or made by a German tranplant?

[Mike from OK]

....... The nameplate says WH Mitchell Seneca Kansas.

I wonder if the nameplate originally said "ARKANSAS" but the "AR" has been worn off?  Would make sense proportionally.

The sliding patchbox is interesting.  I don't recall ever seeing one on a later percussion era gun.

Pretty sure its just Kansas. Seneca is NW of KC. Not saying there isn't a Seneca, Arkansas but I took a decent gander at the nameplate. Despite the staining in the photo it was pretty legible.

I'll look at it again when I get a chance.

Mike

[Feltwad]

If it is from the other side of the pond it will have proof marks on the underside of the barrels  to me it does look Belgium  made , the nameplate on the wrist could have been added at a later date.
Feltwad

[Dennis Glazener]

If it is Kansas I wonder why it's not centered like the top two lines. Arkansas would be properly centered.
Have no idea which statemo is correct, just looking at the layout.
Dennis

[geologyjohn]

It’s Kansas, and I believe our man was:
William Hamilton Mitchel
“ Born in Foxcraft, Maine. Son of Joshua Mitchell.
 Married to Keziah Leland (McLanathan) in 1834 in Maine.
 William was a farmer. He was reared on the paternal farm in Maine until 1843,  when he located to Lowell, Massachusetts, and served for 10 years as captain of the night police force of Lowell.  In 1853, he migrated westward to Galesburg, Illinois, and owned a farm in Knox county, which he developed and cultivated until October 1858.  In that year he loaded all of his children excepting the oldest girl, drove over land to Nemaha County,  Kansas, locating on the present town site of Centralia. He built a log cabin, but did not live long enough to develop his Kansas farm, death intervening in February 1859 in Kansas.  Ten years after William H Mitchell preempted his farm, the town of Centralia was laid out and built on the site of his former home.”
(From thr COURIER TRIBUNE, Seneca, Kansas, Thursday, April 30, 1931 as part of his son, Joshua Mitchell’s obituary).

[Bill Paton]

Ron,
The rifle certainly looks European with the sliding wood butt trap lid, the entry  pipe and trigger guard with the fancy extensions, and the European style percussion lock. It would not be surprising to see Belgian proof marks under the barrels. I’ll bet the wood is European, too.

Your point about a European trained gunsmith making such a rifle in America is a possibility, but I think far more European guns were imported into America in the 19th century than were made here in a European style. That being said, I have a friend with a fine completely French-looking swivel breech signed  "P Vallee Philad” on the lockplate. Vallee immigrated to the US from France and is first listed as a gunsmith in Philadelphia in 1820, aged between 40 and 50. The wood has been tested and found to be American walnut. So there is your American made European style gun made by a European trained gunsmith who immigrated here and brought his style with him.

Bill Paton