Author Topic: Get longer life out of your flints the cheap way...  (Read 10685 times)

Ron T.

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Get longer life out of your flints the cheap way...
« on: October 05, 2009, 11:05:04 AM »
I use to knap my flints, but often got a little too "ambitious" and ended up losing more of the edge of the flint than intended... then I got "smart".

Harbor Freight sells a 5-file set of small, diamond files for $4.95 and a 10-file set for about $8.00... and they'll put a sharp edge on your flint with only a few strokes.  They'll put a NEW edge on your flints with only a few more strokes of the short, handy file.

I've also used them to open up the "slot" of my rear sight a little and intend to flatten the horizontal edge of the rear sight to give the edge a wider look.  Filing or modifying any small job is easy with this very tough files.

Since I bought the 10-file set, I can "sharpen" the edge of my flint whenever I suspect it may not give me a good spark... and the chore isn't a "chore" anymore.  A few small strokes and the flint's edge is sharp again! :)


Strength & Honor...

Ron T.

northmn

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Re: Get longer life out of your flints the cheap way...
« Reply #1 on: October 05, 2009, 12:56:57 PM »
They can also be used in building for touching up or filing hardened steel.

DP

C. Cash

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Re: Get longer life out of your flints the cheap way...
« Reply #2 on: October 05, 2009, 04:14:08 PM »
Thank you for the tip!

sniper68

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Re: Get longer life out of your flints the cheap way...
« Reply #3 on: October 05, 2009, 04:31:06 PM »
Haven't tried any diamond needle files all mine are the reqular ones.  However I did buy a DMT 8" XXcourse(120 or 160 grit) diamond stone when they came out a couple of years. That thing makes quick work of the tops, bottoms and bevels. They now have a couple of pocket size xx course stones, one I know is 4 3/8" x 7/8".  Should be just right for the shooting bag or box. You'll wear out before yhey do.

Pvt. Lon Grifle

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Re: Get longer life out of your flints the cheap way...
« Reply #4 on: October 05, 2009, 10:11:48 PM »
Nice to take a burr of a rough frizen also.   

Offline FL-Flintlock

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Re: Get longer life out of your flints the cheap way...
« Reply #5 on: October 06, 2009, 02:22:38 PM »
I've been trying to tell folks about diamond and silicon carbide tooling long before I even started selling them but I suppose it's better to buy stuff from Harbor Freight or MSC rather than from a participating ALR member?
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northmn

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Re: Get longer life out of your flints the cheap way...
« Reply #6 on: October 06, 2009, 03:14:33 PM »
I bought my diamond files on a whim from an outfit that goes around in trucks selling mostly too cheap tools like a disc sander I bought from them.  The files however do work but are very aggressive.  Didn't know you had a product line now I will look into your goods.  Bought my knife sharpening tools long before I came on this site.

DP

Daryl

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Re: Get longer life out of your flints the cheap way...
« Reply #7 on: October 06, 2009, 05:20:45 PM »
Another way to knap a flint - When a flint stops sparking, look carefully at the leading edge. You will normally see one spot having a rounded knob that is riding the frizzen.  Also look at the frizzen and you will see a single mark in the fouling where that knob sides down the frizzen, keeping the rest of the flint's edge from contacting it.  Knap that knob off and you have fresh flint to strike the frizzen. Knapping all the way across the leading edge is a waste of flint.

Offline frogwalking

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Re: Get longer life out of your flints the cheap way...
« Reply #8 on: October 06, 2009, 05:25:43 PM »
Thanks Daryl,

I think you are saying not to throw the baby out with the bath water. ;D
Quality, schedule, price; Pick any two.

Offline Maven

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Re: Get longer life out of your flints the cheap way...
« Reply #9 on: October 07, 2009, 02:25:55 AM »
"I've been trying to tell folks about diamond and silicon carbide tooling long before I even started selling them...."

FL-flinter, Would you care to post some of the above items in the "Items For Sale" section?
Paul W. Brasky

DEADDAWG

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Re: Get longer life out of your flints the cheap way...
« Reply #10 on: October 07, 2009, 03:38:13 AM »
I use the course diamond from Lansky. 1/2 inch wide and easy to hold. Gives me something to do while relaxing in the recliner after work.

Offline FL-Flintlock

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Re: Get longer life out of your flints the cheap way...
« Reply #11 on: October 07, 2009, 03:07:18 PM »
Maintain the angle you want for the bevel and always work in a circular motion to get an even surface; the larger the working surface of the hone, the easier it is to maintain the geometry of the work.  The harder the flint, the more resistant it is to cutting in a single direction and thus is why natural flints don't take kindly to sawing as do the common agates.  Biggest thing to avoid is producing a knife-edge on the flint; it's okay to get a knife-edge while working the angle but then use the hone/file to take the knife edge off before firing as the too-sharp edge will tend to break and/or chop a crater into the frizzen.

There's no wrong answer in which style of tool you use, whatever works best for you is the best for you to use but there are differences between CBN/diamond coated tooling and common abrasives like aluminum oxide.  Don't use too-much pressure as it will reduce the cutting action and increase wear on the cutting surface.  The cutting surface on this tooling is sharp from the start and does not require a certain amount of contact pressure to break the grains in order to expose new sharp cutting points as is the case with Zirconia and A/O (Aluminum Oxide).

Never use oil on any of this tooling as it will only load-up the cutting surface causing uneven cutting.  If a liquid is desired to keep dust down or flush away the cut material, plain water with a few drops of a liquid detergent is best but be sure to fully flush the surface of the hone/file.  When working them dry, do not bounce them or run a card/brush over them as is commonly done with a steel file but rather blow them off with compressed air (of course the warning about airborne particulates, eye & skin protection and bla, bla, bla all apply)  

If you work a flint while it's in the gun, hold the gun so that the dust falls away from the lock as the dust is highly abrasive.

CBN & S/C (Silicon Carbide) are somewhat similar in application but S/C is softer and does not work in a coating form on solid substrates like CBN does.  CBN will readily cut carbides and ceramics, pretty much anything except real diamond while S/C has considerable limitations beyond hardened steel and certain carbides.  CBN is normally a thin coating on top of tool steel while S/C is best when formed into a shaped mass to be used as a stand-alone or glued to a mounting plate or shank as is the case with face-cut wheels and abrasive grinder points.  Both CBN & S/C are very useful on hardened steel such as frizzens and lock parts because they do not require annealing the part in order to work it.  S/C hones and stones are available in a variety of sizes and shapes but like CBN tooling, S/C is best used with water rather than an oil.  The biggest killer of both CBN & S/C tooling is using too much contact pressure - let the abrasive do it's job because if you force it, you're defeating the purpose of the abrasive.  CBN maintains several advantages over S/C in its ability to cut harder materials and also in that it won't load-up when cutting soft materials like brass & copper.  CBN also works on dry hardwood but oils & sappy wood will cause clogging the cutting surface.

Just a word on grit sizes too.  180grit CBN will "feel" much rougher than 180grit A/O sand paper because the A/O is not fully sharp as is the CBN - normally only about 65% of the surface of A/O, be it paper backed or solid formed as in a stone, is actually sharp enough to cut.  With use and the necessary amount of applied pressure between the work and cutting surface, the A/O breaks down exposing new sharp cutting edges but still the surface maintains only about 65% sharpness on cutting surface.  CBN has 90%+ surface area sharpness while formed S/C runs around 85-90% on average.    

Cost for both CBN & S/C is simply a matter of how much the retailers can sucker out of the customer.  The thickness of the coating on CBN tooling varies greatly but it all wears the same and cannot be re-surfaced with anything other than real diamond so once it's done cutting, it's done cutting and it doesn't matter how much coating remains on the tool.  Same deal with S/C hones and finishing sticks, S/C is S/C and the color is added to the binding agent for nothing other than brand/grit identification purposes.  If you abuse S/C, it's wrecked just the same as anything else and paying $4-$12 each for S/C finishing sticks doesn't make them any better cutting or more durable than paying $2 each buying a set of six.

The majority of my experience with abrasives is as the end-user, I didn't start selling until my body crapped out in '05 putting an end to my industrial business.  BTDT (Been There, Done That) on most of this stuff like getting suckered by the "salesman" into paying high prices for Zirconia coated sanding belts only to find out that they ain't worth a hoot for use on anything softer than alloy steel because you need an excessive amount of contact pressure to break the grains and expose new cutting edges.  Got suckered into paying around $240 for thick-coated grinding wheels to sharpen tungsten GMAW electrodes only to find out that they don't work any better or last any longer than the thin coated ones costing half as much.  It's the same with PSA sanding discs, where the sales hype will get you to pay more for "white" by telling you it's "special for use on wood" despite the fact that the only difference between the "white" A/O coating and the "yellow" A/O coating is the color - then too, there is one mfg that makes a number of different "brand names" so you can buy the same discs in the plain generic white box for $29/roll or wait until they get stamped with a brand name and put in a fancy box so you can pay $49 for the same roll.  

I'll submit a read-only ad to Dennis if anyone is interested in this stuff.
« Last Edit: October 07, 2009, 03:24:26 PM by FL-Flinter »
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Daryl

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Re: Get longer life out of your flints the cheap way...
« Reply #12 on: October 07, 2009, 05:17:12 PM »
Interesting, FL.

sniper68

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Re: Get longer life out of your flints the cheap way...
« Reply #13 on: October 07, 2009, 05:42:41 PM »
I'm hooked on diamond stones and wheels! Here is a method I've tried with great success. It's an 8" 160 grit diamond stone. It's in a baking pan with enough water to cover the stone with 1/8" or a little more. This will catch all the dust. I start with the bottom and get it flat and parallel with the edge and then to the top(hump), keeping it parallel with the bottom and knaped edge. Each flint, depending on shape of course takes only a few minutes. No longer do you have to make due with what you have. Flints will stay tight in the jaws and wear constantly and last longer. With all the time and money we have in our flinters, the poor old flint gets hardly any thought. You'll notice how the flints pictured below have the knaped edge parallel with the bottoms...

Offline Roger Fisher

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Re: Get longer life out of your flints the cheap way...
« Reply #14 on: October 07, 2009, 05:58:56 PM »

Excellent thread and we should all use this idea (dia files under water)  In particular at the new prices for the flints....  except rich's whiteys!

William Worth

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Re: Get longer life out of your flints the cheap way...
« Reply #15 on: October 07, 2009, 11:10:57 PM »
Cool beans!  This works!  I may have a new bench regimen.  Take out the flint at the end of a shooting session and dress it up, put it in the box for next time.  This vindicates all of those marginal flints that I was reluctant to part with and have been saving up.

Offline Pete G.

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Re: Get longer life out of your flints the cheap way...
« Reply #16 on: October 13, 2009, 01:34:12 AM »
With all due respect..........I think I would much rather spend my time doing something other than polishing rocks.

Offline FL-Flintlock

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Re: Get longer life out of your flints the cheap way...
« Reply #17 on: October 14, 2009, 03:00:32 PM »
Pete,

The time involved is minimal.  Pic's below show me doing a black English and a cut agate.  Took far longer to get the pic's than it did to work the flints.  I used the 240 grit hone for the pic's and it took two minutes to do both flints including both sides of the cut agate.  The 180 grit hone is considerably faster and a will dress a flint in the lock faster than the flint can be changed.  Ad is posted in the "member read only" forum.







« Last Edit: October 14, 2009, 03:04:54 PM by FL-Flinter »
The answers you seek are found in the Word, not the world.

J.D.

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Re: Get longer life out of your flints the cheap way...
« Reply #18 on: October 14, 2009, 09:28:05 PM »
The diamond hone I have must ultra fine, 'cause it took right at 20 minutes to take about   1/8 " hump off of one edge of a musket flint. The hone in the photo appears to be much more coarse that mine, so it might work much faster.

How long do these hones last? A better question would be,how many flints will it take to wear one of these hones out?

Thanks and God bless

Offline FL-Flintlock

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Re: Get longer life out of your flints the cheap way...
« Reply #19 on: October 14, 2009, 11:18:32 PM »
JD,

The hone shown is 240grit just because it's the one I grabbed first, normally I use the 180grit which is real fast.  Lifespan of the hones is directly proportional to what you're cutting and how much contact pressure you apply.  Too-much contact pressure is what reduces lifespan no matter what you're cutting, if you try using it like hogging rasp on hardened steel, tooling ceramic or carbide they're going to wear quickly, let the coating do the cutting.  I can't give an honest opinion on lifespan because I tend to beat the $#@* out of them, after about four years on my bench, the 180 is now about 280 grit but that's working everything like truing lock plates, sharpening knives/hawks, carbide cutters, beveling the edges of a 1/2" thick glass mirror for my wife, ect.  

These are the ones I use the most, 2"x6" individuals, the one is glued to a stick to make it easier to use as a file and clamping it in the vise.  Small one at the bottom is the 1"x3"



« Last Edit: October 14, 2009, 11:28:28 PM by FL-Flinter »
The answers you seek are found in the Word, not the world.

Daryl

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Re: Get longer life out of your flints the cheap way...
« Reply #20 on: October 16, 2009, 04:22:52 PM »
FL - what do those hones cost in the States?

Offline FL-Flintlock

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Re: Get longer life out of your flints the cheap way...
« Reply #21 on: October 17, 2009, 04:55:44 AM »
FL - what do those hones cost in the States?

$9.99  Sent you an email.

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Offline FL-Flintlock

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Re: Get longer life out of your flints the cheap way...
« Reply #22 on: October 17, 2009, 05:22:51 AM »
I got a few emails asking about the "CBN" abbreviation and I should have explained it. 

CBN - Cubic Boron Nitride a/k/a man-made diamond.  Most all the diamond hones, stones, files, saws, ect. are CBN even though they are advertised as "diamond".  There is some tooling made with real diamond dust/pieces but it is very pricy and not commonly available from retail sellers, normally sales are limited to heavy industry and the price is indicative of it being real diamond as opposed to CBN however, there are some clever marketers out there who throw out the word "diamond" and sock the snot out of customers on price for CBN.  All quality tooling made with real diamond will have an MSDS available for it because those products are going to industry that is required to maintain MSDS sheets on everything - if the seller can't produce an MSDS for the product, it is more likely than not to be CBN.

I do apologize for creating the confusion.

Mark
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