They are still out there

[120RIR]

Any chance you could add a photo in here (with the proper attribution of course)?  I don't have that reference and I'd love to see it.

Thanks!

[rlm]

This may be the rifle to which Curt Lyles referred

[Curt Lyles]

Yes that's the one That's a handsome rifle, I wish it was signed so we knew who it was that made it. Thanks for posting the picture.curt

[smart dog]

Hi,
As rlm wrote previously, it is amazing that all the pieces survived together.  Perhaps that argues strongly to have it restored and assembled.  You could make a nice "artifact pieces" display but what about the next owner and the next?  Eventually separated parts might get lost forever.

dave

[JTR]

That Isaac Berlin stock design and carving is certainly close.
The signed gun by Andres Albrect shown on Pg. 62 of Whiskers book "Gunsmiths of Lancaster County Pa., is a close example as well.
I would think the Albrect rifle would have more in common with the Ferree, as those guys were about the same age and working about the same time, whereas Berlin was some 20 years younger.
However, given the time period they worked, all three of these guys were working early on when designs and styles were still developing. 
John
 

[mr. no gold]

Since the attributed 'Berlin' rifle is unsigned, there is a possibility that it may have been made by Ferree instead. As I recall, the Berlin attribution was an educated conjecture by Kindig.
Dick

[JTR]

Since the attributed 'Berlin' rifle is unsigned, there is a possibility that it may have been made by Ferree instead. As I recall, the Berlin attribution was an educated conjecture by Kindig.
Dick

Good point! I wonder what other Ferree traits this gun might have?
John

[Eric Kettenburg]

The attribution to Berlin was largely promoted by George Shumway who pictured the signed rifle (extremely similar to this unsigned rifle, Kindig 17) in RCA 1.  Kindig also pictured the signed rifle I believe.  Viewing the signed rifle and the unsigned rifle, it would require a fairly substantial stretch to not view them as being by the same man who was using alternating box designs but almost identical everything else designs.

Berlin appears to have been an extremely talented, adaptable and creative individual.

[120RIR]

Also take a peek at RCA 55.  The carving forward of and rear of the cheek is very, very similar to both of the Berlin/maybe Berlin rifles noted.  As to the restoration, after much consideration and input from many on this form, that's the route I decided to take and is ongoing as we speak - I'll let the gentleman in whose hands this piece now rests reveal himself if/when he chooses to do so.

[120RIR]

Sorry...RCA 55 is signed Berlin, I meant the Berlin-attributed rifle pictured here.

[mr. no gold]

How then do we account for the signed Berlin rifle(s) that have the Kunz like 'wreath carving' behind the cheek piece? This ia about as far
as you can get from the scroll carving on the rifles under discussion here. It stretches my credulity that the same early maker could do both and carry each off very well.
Dick

[rich pierce]

I thought there is only one signed Isaac Berlin rifle?

[mr. no gold]

The rifle I refer to was a Berlin rifle that was in the possession of Dick Zeschske and though it was now a long time ago since I saw it, I recall that it was a signed gun. It had been converted to percussion and was missing the wood lid from the patch box, but it had the 'wreath' type of carving and all in all it was a splendid rifle and early. Not sure where it is today, but it was not the only one like that.
Berlin had the habit of engraving chevron lines in the surface of the rear sight platform which indicates however loosely that a rifle was from his hand.
Dick

[Eric Kettenburg]

Dick Zeschske's rifle has been well photographed and is stamped on the barrel "Made by Isaac Berlin Easton."  This is the rifle w/ the cast side opener w/ piercings.  The barbequed wood box rifle at the beginning of RCA 2 (forget the number) is clearly carved by the same guy, whether Berlin or someone else (did Berlin carve the rifles in old-school Euro tradition?  did he stock them and someone else carve them?).

RCA 1 no. 55 and Kindig 160 are the same rifle and seemingly made after Berlin's move to York Co.  It is signed in script 'Isaac Berlin.'  Kindig 17 is unsigned but is clearly carved and stocked by the same guy.  While the stocking styles and eras of both sets of rifles are very different, the carving on both is of extremely high quality.  Frankly I see the carving design on both assumed-Abbottstown rifles to be very reminiscent of the designs assumed used at CS and by others in NH county and the execution is superb, easily the equal of the carving on the first set of rifles despite being of different design.