Author Topic: They are still out there  (Read 6514 times)

Offline debnal

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They are still out there
« on: January 17, 2022, 05:51:19 PM »
This gun was on a small Florida auction site. The estimate was $50-150. it went for over 12Kwith the auction juice.








Al





Offline Fullstock longrifle

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Re: They are still out there
« Reply #1 on: January 17, 2022, 05:59:59 PM »
It was signed J. Ferree.

Offline homerifle

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Re: They are still out there
« Reply #2 on: January 17, 2022, 06:15:54 PM »
Sweet!

Offline rlm

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Re: They are still out there
« Reply #3 on: January 17, 2022, 06:18:55 PM »
What an incredible find!

Offline Metequa

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Re: They are still out there
« Reply #4 on: January 17, 2022, 06:44:48 PM »
Wow, hope we get to see more photos of this one!

Offline Avlrc

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Re: They are still out there
« Reply #5 on: January 17, 2022, 08:31:42 PM »
Great find.  Love that carving. 

Offline JTR

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Re: They are still out there
« Reply #6 on: January 17, 2022, 10:56:59 PM »
I'll bet that was some spirited bidding!
So, is the gun in two pieces? I can't open anything beyond what I see on this page.

So, who bought it???  ;D ;D ;D
John Robbins

Offline mr. no gold

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Re: They are still out there
« Reply #7 on: January 17, 2022, 11:20:53 PM »
Heck of a buy when compared with the 'Monmouth rifle' which sold not so long ago for 300K and change. They are both in about the same condition too,
though the lock is not shown and may be gone. Small matter! This will restore beautifully. Good find, thanks for bringing it in.
Dick

Offline debnal

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Re: They are still out there
« Reply #8 on: January 18, 2022, 12:09:31 AM »
The lock is with it, converted to percussion and the rifle is in two pieces although pretty much all there. Should be an easy restoration.
Al

Offline 120RIR

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Re: They are still out there
« Reply #9 on: January 18, 2022, 01:10:46 AM »
I was that lucky bidder (No meat on the dinner table for a while...who needs food anyhow?).  You'll be seeing plenty of this rifle in the immediate future once I get it and then someday down the road once some proper restoration work has been done.  This rifle will NOT disappear into the woodwork and I will make it accessible to interested parties.  Stay tuned.

Offline 120RIR

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Re: They are still out there
« Reply #10 on: January 18, 2022, 01:36:33 AM »
Oh...and since I got skunked on the Rochester rifle last year to the tune of well over $200k, I looked at this win as a bit of consolation prize.  Not a bad prize, eh?  Attached are some slightly better versions of the photos from the auction site including one showing the lock in place.  I'll post much better photos once the rifle is in my hands.










Offline JTR

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Re: They are still out there
« Reply #11 on: January 18, 2022, 01:50:37 AM »
What a Great find! Thanks for the additional pictures.
John
John Robbins

Offline Jacob_S_P

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Re: They are still out there
« Reply #12 on: January 18, 2022, 02:23:39 AM »
Any relation to you? Or just one you wanted? Either way always nice to find something hidden away.

Offline WESTbury

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Re: They are still out there
« Reply #13 on: January 18, 2022, 02:47:31 AM »
Brian,

You got a well-deserved break with this win, congratulations. Looking forward to your pictures.

Kent
"We are not about to send American Boys 9 to 10 thousand miles away from home to do what Asian Boys ought to be doing for themselves."
President Lyndon B. Johnson October 21, 1964

Offline 120RIR

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Re: They are still out there
« Reply #14 on: January 18, 2022, 02:59:51 AM »
In response to Jacob_S_P, nope...no relation.  My Irish and German ancestors pretty much all came over to America on the same late 19th-early 20th century banana boats as everyone else.  I just love the subject matter and this one really caught my attention.  I'm really looking forward to the upcoming research and restoration efforts.  All I know about the background of this rifle is what the auctioneer told me. It was in the family for a "long time".  I'm hoping to hear from the consigner shortly with some information that might prove interesting - or not. We'll see.

Offline Shreckmeister

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Re: They are still out there
« Reply #15 on: January 18, 2022, 04:08:32 AM »
Wonderful find and from my neck of the woods. Congratulations
Rightful liberty is unobstructed action according to our will within limits drawn around us by the equal rights of others. I do not add 'within the limits of the law' because law is often but the tyrant's will, and always so when it violates the rights of the individual.

Offline mr. no gold

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Re: They are still out there
« Reply #16 on: January 18, 2022, 06:46:31 AM »
Still trying to figure out why people keep referring to the Monmouth Rifle as the Rochester gun. It is plainly marked on the inside of the wood (original to the gun) "...taken at the Battle of Monmouth...", but happened to become property of the Museum of Arts and Sciences in Rochester a century or two after the battle. And Yeah, I chased it too for a few calls, but could see where it was going. It gaveled down in the high 200s and with the house vigorish, it came to
306K. And don't ask if I know who the final bidder was. Sooooo, in my strange opinion, the Ferree is a dandy 'consolation prize!' Should restore very nicely and be a real treasure. If anyone dissents from this perspective, they should go find another in better condition
Dick.

Offline 120RIR

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Re: They are still out there
« Reply #17 on: January 18, 2022, 08:31:13 PM »
I presume because that's where the rifle surfaced and has resided for a good number of years - at least that's how I look at it.  At least that much is a certainty.  The Monmouth association - that's an unknown.  The attribution on the inside of the patchbox lid, is presently without any supporting evidence.  It could just be old family legend and lore which we've seen time and time again can be mistaken or embellished.  Or...maybe the attribution is right on the money but we'll likely never know for sure.

Offline AZshot

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Re: They are still out there
« Reply #18 on: January 18, 2022, 08:44:47 PM »
I'd like to know more about why it's so valuable, hope that's not vulgar sounding, it's meant in the spirit of being an antiques and history collector my entire life.  But I am only looking for Southern rifles, and know little about these beautiful other styles.  I know auction estimates are often wrong, they don't know what they have.  But If I saw it at a flea market, It'd assume more, maybe $300-$500 just for the history, carvings, that it's signed, etc.  What would make a rifle like this worth 5 figures, vs 3?  Just so I know the long rifle market better.  Thanks.

Offline rich pierce

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Re: They are still out there
« Reply #19 on: January 18, 2022, 09:05:18 PM »
My thoughts on this rifle and it’s value: only a few J Feree rifles are known and this is the earliest by appearance. It could be 1770s by guess based on buttplate style and wooden box. So, an important maker whose work is rare, early gun, possibly Rev War era, checks the boxes. Also, no need to worry that any embellishments are not original. I don’t know what restoration will cost but regardless, when done, will be sorry double what’s been invested, at a minimum.
Andover, Vermont

Offline mr. no gold

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Re: They are still out there
« Reply #20 on: January 18, 2022, 10:05:19 PM »
This is a good early rifle. Joel Ferree was killed just a stones throw downhill from where the KRA holds their annual meeting outside of Pittsburgh, in 1801, so that makes this a 1700s gun. Made where, who knows? Could be Lancaster since most of his work was done there. Probably his best work is shown in the early KRA books; it has a long barrel, a daisy patch box and very fine raised carving. I seem to recall that it sold in the last four or five years for 50 K which is still a good buy in my world. While this gun has rather simple, but excellent carving, and a wood box, it is probably one of his less expensive guns adding to the early date. The "Miller's Blockhouse" rifle is probably the same age, but has a brass,. daisy finial, box.
As to the Monmouth rifle, it makes more much sense to refer to as that, than it does to call Pennsylvania Rifles, by the name of Kentucky since we know that most were made in the former state and most likely never went to the latter state. No proof for provenience on the Monmouth gun, but the writing was done in an old hand using a quill pen a long time ago and is more than most of us ever get with most early items. Out of dozens of pieces, I have just one with some history. Not a very good record is it? And, The American origin of the latter gun turns on the maple stock and not much else. Could still be German made using American wood, though I doubt it.
Dick



 

TNBandit

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Re: They are still out there
« Reply #21 on: January 23, 2022, 12:02:04 AM »
Well there you go. Thanks for having me and this proves just how much of a rookie I am. I had that one saved on my watch list and planned to be a player in the estimated $50-$150  range...

Offline BillKilgore

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Re: They are still out there
« Reply #22 on: January 23, 2022, 02:17:11 AM »
Congratulations @120RIR. I am looking forward to seeing photos of the restoration.

Offline JHeath

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Re: They are still out there
« Reply #23 on: January 25, 2022, 10:31:11 PM »
Might be able to research if the battle was called “Battle of Monmouth” at the time or named that later. Or if it was known as the Battle *at* Monmouth.

Or investigate how it could have been “taken”. Taken from Patriot by British or a tory, then left in America? Or taken by a Patriot from a tory? Were there tory militia at the battle? If not, since we know it wasn’t taken from a British regular, then it would have been taken from a patriot, marked by a British, then abandoned in America.

Offline 120RIR

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Re: They are still out there
« Reply #24 on: February 03, 2022, 04:32:50 AM »
Here we go.  Whomever coined the phrase "Anticipation is half the fun" clearly wasn't an obsessed collector waiting for that next piece to arrive.  It turns out this is a smooth rifle...very slender and graceful but with a honkin 61-ish caliber bore.  I had no idea the sideplate survived but here it is and in all respects this very much exceeded my most optimistic expectations once it was in-hand.  Had this been listed on a more prominent auction site (e.g., Morphy's, RIA, etc.), I suspect the gavel would have come down on a far higher price and I'd once again be a-singin' the blues.  Thanks Turkey Creek Auctions!  For your analytical pleasure (in inches)...

Length of pull: 13 1/2
Buttplate width: 1 3/4
Buttplate height: 4 13/16
Barrel length: 41 7/8
Barrel width at breech: 13/16
Barrel width at muzzle: 15/16
Wrist height: 1 3/8
Write width: 1 1/4
Lockplate length: 5 5/8
Lockplate width: 15/16
Triggerguard bow width: just shy of 7/8