Author Topic: 1 issue after another, now this  (Read 3900 times)

Offline foresterdj

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1 issue after another, now this
« on: February 22, 2022, 04:58:14 AM »
Got a TC Hawken when I got out of college (1981), cap lock, shot it a bunch back then, hunting and at shoots, always wanted a flintlock. Fast forward to last summer when I was talking about this with my neighbor. He said he had a rifle barrel and flintlock and a slab of walnut he got 50 years ago to build, but never got around to it and I could have if I wanted. I figured it would make a good first retirement project and actually started last summer, before I retired.

But I goofed the stock in multiple ways and finally figured it was beyond reconciliation (splits and miss drilled holes) so ordered a partially inlaid maple stock, which required a different lock. This was just as well since the Russ Hamm lock, just considering the poor frizzen to pan fit as a measure, was not nearly the quality of the new large Siler. But, wanting to still use the Russ Hamm, I ordered a pistol barrel in .54 caliber. Botched a stock attempt for it using part of the walnut (more splits, that old piece of walnut just seems very brittle), so ordered a cherry blank to work with (while waiting on back ordered rifle stock).

Have learned that the precise inlaying of wood to steel is not my strong suit, so a little Acra glass gel tightens up breach to wood fit.

Got going steady on it this January, got rifle stock looking good, many flaws in fit, a chip in a barrel pin hole (fixed with matching oval brass inlays). Terrible luck with the inlet ram rod pipe, acra glass under it stabilizes it though and cannot be seen. Stock finally done except for nose cap, which is fit but not pinned yet. Will not win any prises, but should be good enough to shoot at a deer this fall.

Having difficulty with my Laurel Mountain Forge barrel browning process, as noted in a previous post (and thanks to all the helpful replies). I think some are my problems, I think some the instructions need to be more clear on do not overlap or cover twice or this is rubbing and gives the copper color and do not apply while still warm from a wash down, and some just because I cannot get and maintain a warm and humid environment well, even in my make shift tent.

Then I today read many posts about the Douglas rifle barrels and their 12L14 steel issues. Yup, my barrel is an early 1970's "Made for Golden Age Arms by G.R. Douglas  .45 Cal."  OK, fifty people will chime in that they have and shoot old Douglas barrels without issue, but there was apparently an issue and I do like my hands and eyes.

Truly, if I had known about Russ Hamm lock quality, Douglas barrel issues and my inept skill level I would have said no thanks to my neighbor and just bought a good kit to assemble.

Maybe I will build a test firing cradle for the first few shots.

Online mikeyfirelock

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Re: 1 issue after another, now this
« Reply #1 on: February 22, 2022, 05:09:53 AM »
Ahhh!!!!!!!!!       But you’re building CHARACTER !      ( this story can be repeated by many members here I suspect…….hang in there, keep the faith,  and don’t give up.   My first gun hangs in my shop to remind me how much I’ve learned.)
Mike Mullins

Offline rich pierce

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Re: 1 issue after another, now this
« Reply #2 on: February 22, 2022, 05:31:30 AM »
It’s normal to have issues and make mistakes when building from scratch without taking classes or having a mentor guiding you. Just part of the process for us independent types. It was the same 40 years ago except we didn’t have the internet to give us false confidence. Even books and DVDs won’t prevent issues. These things take time and a bunch of experience.

Regarding the LMF issues, I get away with overlapping, double wiping and all. I brown in a capped 3” PVC pipe with a wet rag in the capped end. I hang the barrel in it, using a wire through the front underlug. I put a wet rag over it and leave it in a warm spot. It rusts like crazy. It doesn’t care about wiping issues.
Andover, Vermont

Offline Bill Raby

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Re: 1 issue after another, now this
« Reply #3 on: February 22, 2022, 06:45:22 AM »
   I think most of us here do not build rifles because we want fancy rifles. We build rifles because we enjoy the time that we spend doing it. So I would say that if you enjoyed building it, then it turned out just fine.

Offline borderdogs

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Re: 1 issue after another, now this
« Reply #4 on: February 22, 2022, 06:56:34 AM »
foresterdj,
Welcome to the forum, you are in an area with your rifle that many have been in me too. I have made mistakes in all four rifles I built the first one was in 1979-80 and I didn't build another until 2019. I made some mistakes on one rifle that I almost put it up then took a break then went back to it. Like Rich said they take time and a lot of experience and if you are working alone this forum will be a great asset. There are lots of people here that will offer good advise and they helped me and I had a lot of issues. I test fired the first rifle I built I tied it to an old tire and tied a string to the trigger it went off fine no problem.

I wish I kept that rifle just to see how much I improved  over the years. Good luck foresterdj
Rob

Offline foresterdj

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Re: 1 issue after another, now this
« Reply #5 on: February 23, 2022, 10:04:02 PM »
Hmmmm.

Pistol was coming along well. barrel inlaid, lock inlaid, trigger inlaid, butt cap fit, ram rod hole drilled, hand forged my own iron trigger guard, barrel under lugs installed also both sights. Stock drilled for the barrel pins. Just finished a near perfect inlay of entry pipe.

But I guess pistol project is now done.



heard a crack. Tested to see if I could switch to a half stock, but it was split clear through the grip. Might get a new block of wood and try again next winter.

Offline borderdogs

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Re: 1 issue after another, now this
« Reply #6 on: February 23, 2022, 10:10:46 PM »
Don't beat yourself up over it could happen to anyone I give you credit that you posted it. My advise it take a break and do something else for a little while then come back to it fresh. I have had to do that taking a break helped me get a better perspective on the project (and get in a better mood too!)
Rob

Offline flinchrocket

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Re: 1 issue after another, now this
« Reply #7 on: February 23, 2022, 11:21:41 PM »
Titebond II

Offline Daryl

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Re: 1 issue after another, now this
« Reply #8 on: February 24, 2022, 12:52:30 AM »
I was going to suggest the same thing. I've heard Titebond 3 is even better.
It should end up, if done well, to be stronger than the wood, would have been.
Daryl

"a gun without hammers is like a spaniel without ears" King George V

Offline EC121

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Re: 1 issue after another, now this
« Reply #9 on: February 24, 2022, 12:59:08 AM »
The barrel channel was probable too tight.  Looks like it broke in the ramrod channel.  Glue back and keep going.  The glue joint will be mostly hidden.  You can always restock it after practicing on it.
Brice Stultz

Offline foresterdj

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Re: 1 issue after another, now this
« Reply #10 on: February 24, 2022, 06:38:31 PM »
Some items which I think contributed to the breakage:

Stock was cherry, and seemed pretty soft as it was being worked.

There were some bark inclusions between a couple of the growth rings. I had opened them with Dremel and filled with epoxy and filing dust. in the grip area the break was along these lines.

I had a pretty large ramrod hole/groove, 7/16th inch, only because I had a piece of ramrod that size. This left a web of wood between the bottom of barrel channel and the ramrod groove of just 3/16th inch. Which I was compromising with each pin hole of 3/32nds that I drilled through it.

I was in the process of drilling the pin holes for the entry pipe tab when the break occurred. To be sure the pipe and hole were aligned, I had the ram rod in the tube and had a hand spring clamp to be sure it was held tight in place while drilling. This spring clamp kept wanting to slip off the two top edges of the barrel channel, which caused it to make sideways pressure against just one side.

I think all this accumulated to cause the break. I heard the crack and when I took it out of the vice I could see the split. I wanted to see how far it went, thinking if it stopped short I could revise to a half stock design, but when I pulled a little the whole thing split off.

I will take advice on two levels. I will get some glue (Titebond II) and glue it together, but will also set it aside for a while. Since I need time not to be so bummed.

On a related note, I did some glue strength research and found a site where several glues were systematically tested, measuring breaking strength long grain to long grain and long grain to end grain, with results averaged and standard deviations from the means established. To my surprise, plain old Elmers glue had the strongest average long grain to long grain bond but was quit variable in it's results. Titebond II was the 5th strongest average, but very consistently good. link is below.

 https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1GAZrhrtJPi8-iqPRVfqgOgf7RTg8Vqmen6OKJ4Ae6_I/edit#gid=321279609

Offline JTR

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Re: 1 issue after another, now this
« Reply #11 on: February 25, 2022, 01:38:32 AM »
As Daryl said, Titebond III is The One right now.
If that stock were mine, I'd wrap the barrel in a single layer of wax paper, wax side out, put a light coating of glue on both haves of the broken stock. Then fit the wood back together as perfectly as possible. Once fitted back together, clamp it snugly at both ends and the middle. Let dry in a warm room.
To preserve the ramrod hole, wrap the RR with four or five wraps of wax paper, wax side out. Lay the rammer in the hole before you lay the two pieces of wood back together.

Once the glue is good and dry, unclamp the stock, ease out the barrel and ramrod, and clean up the excess glue. The Titebond glue will sand and stain, so with a bit of work you'll have an invisible repair.
John Robbins

Offline Not English

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Re: 1 issue after another, now this
« Reply #12 on: February 25, 2022, 05:00:15 AM »
Rich, thanks for mentioning your browning set up. That's a great idea. I'm definitely trying it with the next browning job.

Offline mgbruch

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Re: 1 issue after another, now this
« Reply #13 on: February 25, 2022, 06:32:09 AM »
The first rifle I built from a blank turned out ok.  Lots of style and architecture issues, but I still have it today.  I think that was dumb luck.  The second rifle I ended up restocking completely.  Too many issues to overcome.  My first pistol was the same as that second rifle. (Still don't like building pistols) Don't let it get you down. As it has been pointed out, you're in good company.  Keep at it and you will not regret it. I promise you!

Offline foresterdj

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Re: 1 issue after another, now this
« Reply #14 on: February 27, 2022, 12:41:07 AM »
glued.   Will work more on it in a few days.




Offline oldtravler61

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Re: 1 issue after another, now this
« Reply #15 on: February 27, 2022, 01:41:53 AM »
  Made a SMR 30 + YEARS AGO. IT split do to my lack of skills. Split right down the middle of the ramrod/ barrel channel. Almost like yours. Did what was suggested. Glued it up and it has held together just fine. It was a cherry stock too ! The gun has been shot a lot...
 So keep going..!  Most of us have had similar issues..
 Oldtravler

Offline JTR

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Re: 1 issue after another, now this
« Reply #16 on: February 27, 2022, 02:26:29 AM »
Nice job!
John Robbins

Offline PAFlinter

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Re: 1 issue after another, now this
« Reply #17 on: February 27, 2022, 04:07:40 AM »
Good job.  If it was mine,  I'd remove a little material in the barrel channel and bed the barrel with Probed 2000 or acraglass. . To give it more strength....Just my .02

Offline Fly Navy

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Re: 1 issue after another, now this
« Reply #18 on: February 27, 2022, 08:34:44 AM »
After seeing this I will be more careful when I fit my barrels in the stock. I won't be tapping them quite so hard.

Offline Bob Gerard

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Re: 1 issue after another, now this
« Reply #19 on: February 27, 2022, 07:08:27 PM »
If you used Titebond glue, that won’t bust ever (at least where it’s been glued). If you give it a good dark stain that seam will probably not even be detected. Congratulations.

Online mikeyfirelock

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Re: 1 issue after another, now this
« Reply #20 on: February 27, 2022, 10:34:30 PM »
I agree ……….I think this will not be noticeable ( unless you point it out) to any casual inspection ( or any inspection at all) once it is stained.  Nice job on the fix!!
Mike Mullins

Offline Ezra

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Re: 1 issue after another, now this
« Reply #21 on: February 27, 2022, 11:53:37 PM »
Hmmmm.

But I guess pistol project is now done.



heard a crack…

Oh dear.  Best of luck my friend.

Ez
"Rules are for the obedience of fools and guidance of wise men"

Offline jmf

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Re: 1 issue after another, now this
« Reply #22 on: February 28, 2022, 06:02:18 AM »
Im sure your repair will be fine. Back in the mid 80’s I built a table and 6 chairs and managed to split the leg while tapping a stretcher into a mortise on the last chair. I just didnt have any more 6/4 to cut another, so glued it up with tightbond ll and its never been an issue or even noticed by anyone in almost 40 years now.

Offline foresterdj

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Re: 1 issue after another, now this
« Reply #23 on: March 07, 2022, 04:15:48 AM »
Rifle update with pictures will be posted later tonight. Look for heading Annabell is done (I am going to name her Annabell.)

Offline Craig Wilcox

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Re: 1 issue after another, now this
« Reply #24 on: March 07, 2022, 10:46:41 PM »
JMF, wish you hadn't mentioned the '80's being 40 years ago - makes this child born in '45 REALLY feel old.  Of course, thinking of when I went into the Navy 58 years ago also does that.

As to the pistol project, I keep two lengths  (10' each) of 1/4" surgical rubber tubing on hand - great clamping aid on things like that.  Add Titebond 3, keeps everything going along pretty good.
Craig Wilcox
We are all elated when Dame Fortune smiles at us, but remember that she is always closely followed by her daughter, Miss Fortune.