Author Topic: engraving videos  (Read 1781 times)

Offline Metalshaper

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engraving videos
« on: May 02, 2022, 05:15:55 AM »
I enjoy Bill's build videos and such!! Lots of great info to be learned. Mike Brook's mentioned he should start to  do a few videos
< whether or not tongue in cheek?>

 I'd sure be interested in seeing a few "short" videos showing engraving techniques and the
equipment used? I know some do the air engraving and others traditional hammer and chisel work. (Yes, I have Schipper's book but
am somewhat a visual learner? ) it'd be Nifty :) to see how you guys go about it? Layout and design,, and actual cutting.


Just a thought anyways?? since I don't have anyone handy to bug into showing me first hand?

Respect Always
Metalshaper/Jonathan

Offline deepcreekdale

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Re: engraving videos
« Reply #1 on: May 02, 2022, 08:00:25 PM »
Jack Brooks has one that isn't too bad, and I think Wallace Gusler has one as well. However, that being said, as good as those videos might be and as skillful as those gentlemen are, you really need to have someone show you how unless you have a natural talent for doing it. Most people need help in sharpening, getting the proper heel, using correct hammer technique etc. Not easily done from a book or video.  I had both videos but floundered around until I took some classes at the WKU NMLRA Gunsmithing seminar which put me light years ahead. And even after that there was still a learning curve. I love engraving but it is not something you can learn from a book or watch someone on a video. There are various hands on engraving programs around, it will put you far ahead to try and find one. I think some member of this forum provide this, save your nickels and sign up with them.
Also though, remember most builders of American rifles, even some of the well known masters were lousy engravers. We are so used to seeing modern engraving, done by people working under microscopes that we think that was how it was done in this country in the old days. Instead most was done by some rum soaked guy using homemade tools, with no artificial light, no magnification except glasses if he was lucky and after minimal training during his apprenticeship. This is NOT an excuse for poor engraving, just that you don't have to have years of training in Europe and belong to a guild to do appropriate colonial work.
”Far and away the best prize that life has to offer is the chance to work hard at work worth doing.” Theodore Roosevelt

Offline Metalshaper

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Re: engraving videos
« Reply #2 on: May 02, 2022, 08:36:45 PM »
DCDale,

Have the Brooks video and Gusslar's engraving and carving video's. Agreed there are some things that can't beat first hand training or classes.
but in the absence of being able to attend something like that, if you are able to watch and re-watch videos..I think there are things that you can pick up?
I understand the old builders were far from Master engravers! I just want to be able to advance my attempts.. I built my first long rifle watching the Herschle
House video?

And the idea for my video post, had a secondary purpose as its always interesting ( to me anyways ) to hear how someone describes their work? just a quirk of mine.

Metalshaper



Offline smylee grouch

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Re: engraving videos
« Reply #3 on: May 02, 2022, 09:01:33 PM »
I think it was American Pioner Video that had maybe two such videos. IIRC one was by the late Ron Elhert.

Online Bill Raby

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Re: engraving videos
« Reply #4 on: May 02, 2022, 10:37:23 PM »
 There are lots of videos online showing all different ways to do it. My opinion is that learning to engrave is pretty simple but getting good at it will take the rest of your life. Get some tools and start practicing.

Offline smoke and flames

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Re: engraving videos
« Reply #5 on: May 02, 2022, 10:54:16 PM »
If possible, try to find an engrave near you that can look over your shoulder and give you a few pointers to practice. Another great resource is the Firearms engraves Guild of America. FEGA  Check out their website for videos and lots of other helpful things  FEGA.com 

Offline Gaeckle

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Re: engraving videos
« Reply #6 on: May 03, 2022, 04:21:28 AM »
I don't know where you live, but if you can, take a class. The best one to take, in my opinion, is from Mike Lea. He will show you how to do the most important task in engraving: keeping your tools sharp and how to shape them correctly. If you cannot keep a sharp tool, everything else is basic bumbling around. After that it is practice, practice, practice.

Offline Frozen Run

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Re: engraving videos
« Reply #7 on: May 03, 2022, 07:10:29 AM »
I second Mike Lea's class, he usually holds a 3 day class every year at the Log Cabin Shop. Here is my write up I did on it, it was worth every penny! Feel free to ask me any questions regarding my experience with the class. The nice thing about taking a class, any class for that matter, is it gives you the ability to understand what exactly you're looking at in a video or reading from a book.

https://americanlongrifles.org/forum/index.php?topic=68429.msg684814#msg684814

Offline 577SXS

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Re: engraving videos
« Reply #8 on: May 03, 2022, 06:02:58 PM »
Sam Alfano has a lot of engraving videos. These teach everything from sharpening gravers to all types of layout and engraving.
MasterEngraver.com

Offline Metalshaper

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Re: engraving videos
« Reply #9 on: May 03, 2022, 06:09:24 PM »
I was just hoping to see a few more of the ALR guys in action?

 I've ran though a lot of the videos being recommended ( and Thanks! ) and have a couple from Jim Turpin.. I  have been on the Engraver's cafe an various forums.
Getting ready to retire, so one of the goals is to spend some serious time practicing and drawing, and drawing, and drawing!

Respect Always
Metalshaper/Jonathan

Offline JTR

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Re: engraving videos
« Reply #10 on: May 03, 2022, 06:58:22 PM »
Keep up the drawing, keep up the practice!
But one of the Best purchases you can make to help you learn to engrave is this tool; https://www.engravingschool.com/private/Lindsay%20Sharpener.htm
Being able to sharpen your tool, and then re-sharpen it to the exact same point when needed is one of the most important things you'll need to learn. These templates make a difficult task just plain easy. True, they are a bit costly, but you only need to buy them once.
John Robbins

Offline 577SXS

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Re: engraving videos
« Reply #11 on: May 03, 2022, 09:01:55 PM »
Drawing is the hard part!

Offline Metalshaper

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Re: engraving videos
« Reply #12 on: May 03, 2022, 09:57:32 PM »



here is some scribbling I did , while waiting for nutrient digests and instruments to finish running..Lab work is hurry up and wait!!

Respect Always
Metalshaper/Jonathan

Offline john bohan

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Re: engraving videos
« Reply #13 on: May 04, 2022, 03:01:08 AM »
I think that if you can draw that well, you will learn to do some nice engravings. I have to trace all my stuff, I call it farmer engraving.

Offline Metalshaper

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Re: engraving videos
« Reply #14 on: May 04, 2022, 03:25:47 AM »






here are some of the 'home grown' tools I've made for engraving. the two chisel styles <left pair>are made from a HSS lathe blank and a ground
HSS jigsaw blade.. The other two V tools are HSS lathe blanks. The handles are aluminum lab rack pieces, my old boss donated to the cause.
The hammer was fashioned from an old bolt the weld shop supervisor threw to me.. and asked"SO Jon, what can you make from that?" I used their
cut off saw to thin the head and then proceeded from there. :P  He was surprised and bit impressed I think??

Respect Always
Metalshaper/Jonathan

Offline Metalshaper

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Re: engraving videos
« Reply #15 on: May 04, 2022, 03:36:43 AM »



there is a bowling ball version, down in the shop.. but this one started as a lil aluminum drill press vise, a couple of bolts, stainless steel bowl< with four
long self tapping screws in through the sides> and a small dab of concrete  ::) the base is an solid lawnmower tire I found somewhere.. Poor men have poor ways??

Respect Always
Metalshaper/Jonathan

there is a true engraving hammer in the shop as well.. ???

Offline kutter

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Re: engraving videos
« Reply #16 on: May 04, 2022, 07:18:51 PM »
Drawing is good. But don't get all engaged and tangled up in the small details with the main or Master scroll lines.
Those little leaves and detail lines are nothing more than smaller versions of the main scroll.
Some call the master/main scroll lines the backbone lines.

Sketch those main lines out and just those.
Keep at it till they are smooth and one scroll flows off of another w/o any 'elbows & knees' as they say.

Scroll can be perfectly round. It can also be elongated in shape. The latter is a much smoother and flowing style and sometimes better suited to odd shaped areas to be filled.
Whatever the style it must be planned out so you don't paint yourself into a corner

Turn your drawing around and view from different sides. It will sometimes amaze you how oit of shape it looks fom one vantage point while you thought it looked quite nice when you orig drew it up.

Not every area you will be engraving is a perfect square of rectangle,,almost never.
So don't get into the habit of only sketching scroll to fill a perfect space like that.

Once you feel very confident laying out the master lines of the scroll work, then you can start adding detail to them.
But don't overdo the detail in sketching. That can clutter the sketching and bog you down in fine detail.
You are not going to be able to get the ultra fine detail w/paper and pencil that you will with a fine point chisel in metal.
That comes with practice of course. It's not an easy trade to learn though some pick it up quicker than others.

You only really need a V point graver and you can do 99% of any work you want to do.
I use the small 3/32 square lathe bits. But I grind the 90* included angle at the point to a lesser included angle of 70*. Just a preference.

Sharpening can be biggest problem to overcome when learning. Lots of helpful video's, classes and equipment around now.
When I started, it was freehand sharpening on an oil stone. Graver in one hand, oil stone in the other.

A flat graver is much easier to sharpen than the V point.
For quite a while when first learning (early 70's) I only used a Flat graver to cut everything.
It is still an easy way to cut thin lines like those cut with a V graver.
You simply tip the flat graver up onto one of the edges or points at the tip.
Now you are cutting on that tip which is actually a V shaped cutting point formed by the bottom flat of the graver and one side of the graver bit itself.
Helps to use a fairly wide flat graver in doing this so you don't  bury the opposite point of the graver into the work if cutting deeply.

You can use it to widen/flair the line as you cut as well by tipping the graver to the side.
A retired long time engraver w/ International Silver Co showed me that back then.
He used it to cut all the Script lettering he did on the work.

Offline Metalshaper

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Re: engraving videos
« Reply #17 on: May 04, 2022, 09:23:46 PM »
Kutter,

Thanks for the advice! My two V cutters are what I use most of the time. The chisel shaped ones , I seem to have an easier time with nick and dot using them?
I am trying a running cut on the N&D and they seem to be what is working best for now?  Sharpening is like you described actually, graver in one hand and stone in the other.
I wear a magna visor of sorts to work, so I can see the ends pretty well I think.

Not trying to be a Master, just want to get a consistent and clean look to what I'm attempting. LOTS of practice still needs to be done..on paper and on metal!

Respect Always
Metalshaper/Jonathan

Offline elkhorne

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Re: engraving videos
« Reply #18 on: May 05, 2022, 08:19:29 AM »
Metalshaper,
What overall length and handle length do you use on the gravers you make? Seems some use 4-5” handles while others like Mike Miller appear to use a much longer handled graver. Just curious as I made some with 3/8” aluminum handles but only about 4” and seemed to small for good hand control. This has been a good thread for novice engravers. Thanks.
elkhorne

Offline Metalshaper

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Re: engraving videos
« Reply #19 on: May 05, 2022, 03:24:17 PM »
Elkorne,

the handle portions are about 3.5" in length and are 1/2" diameter.. the overall lengths are right at 5 1/2" for most of them < the lil jigsaw bladed one is 5"L and 3/8ths dia handle>  in use, the base/heel under my pinky finger rests on the top of the HSS and the top is between the index and thumb. they could be a lil longer  in the handle maybe?? but that's the length of pieces I had to work with and just went with them. 

I bought some 3x3mm  and 6x6mm lengths of HSS from Amazon. mainly to use with my Craftsman 109 AA  and Sherline lathes, but could make new gravers if I think theses are cramping me up? (but they are what I'm used to?) I do have a couple I made from some 1/2" spring rod material, that
are about 8" long ..  These are heavy, on their own, and have no additional handle material on them.

Respect Always
Metalshaper/Jonathan

my practice has been on steel plates ( from Bownell's..hey we were driving right by them  :) ) or annealed steel plates..

« Last Edit: May 05, 2022, 04:28:23 PM by Metalshaper »