Author Topic: Offhand Shooting Technique  (Read 3437 times)

Offline Scota4570

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1976
Re: Offhand Shooting Technique
« Reply #25 on: May 13, 2022, 07:03:44 PM »
So the question is: do you physically hold the sights on target while breaking the shot.

 That is - use muscles to keep the sights on target - or just relax your body and let the rifle and sights naturally settle on the target.



I may have missed it in the previous posts.  Never use your muscles, use bone structure, your left elbow should be against your rib cage.  It is popular to hold the the rifle way forward with the left hand.  This is no good for accurate shooting. 

The front sight will never settle on the target.  Squeeze more when it looks good, stop when it drifts off.  On a good day lead the drift so the trigger breaks in the center. 

Sight your rifle in for a center hold on the target.  The old school 6 o'clock hold changes depending on the light. 

Follow through and not flinching is huge. 

Offline D. Taylor Sapergia

  • Member 3
  • Hero Member
  • *
  • Posts: 11968
Re: Offhand Shooting Technique
« Reply #26 on: May 13, 2022, 08:41:32 PM »
Scota, what you are describing is not offhand shooting as I know it.  Resting your left elbow against the ribs is a body rest, and doesn't qualify for offhand. 
D. Taylor Sapergia
www.sapergia.blogspot.com

Art is not an object.  It is the excitement inspired by the object.

Offline Scota4570

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1976
Re: Offhand Shooting Technique
« Reply #27 on: May 14, 2022, 12:51:24 AM »
Interesting thought.  I was describing how to shoot off hand in CMP service rifle and every other discipline I have participated in.  I have never heard of the shooter's body defined as a supporting surface.  I welcome being set straight.  Since I shoot consistently above 90% in aggregates, I don't want somebody to tell me I am breaking the rules if I go to a big shoot.

The only way for me to avoid the underside of my arm resting on my chest is to hold the rifle way-way out of the forearm.  I see nobody doing that. 

NMLRA 2020rule book

5610–OFFHAND POSITION Standing on both feet, with no
other portion of the body touching the ground or any
other supporting surface. The rifle will be supported by
both hands and one shoulder only. The rifle must lie in
the palm of the forward hand.

Offline D. Taylor Sapergia

  • Member 3
  • Hero Member
  • *
  • Posts: 11968
Re: Offhand Shooting Technique
« Reply #28 on: May 14, 2022, 01:27:44 AM »
Your NMLRA rule describes exactly what I have...no support other than two hands and a shoulder.  Different events will have different rules.  The NMLRA rule is a valiant attempt to level the field for everyone.
Some shooters are more corpulent than others and will take advantage of a food blister than protrudes enough to create a wonderful rest for the left elbow.  This rule is made to disallow that.
D. Taylor Sapergia
www.sapergia.blogspot.com

Art is not an object.  It is the excitement inspired by the object.

Offline Daryl

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 12326
Re: Offhand Shooting Technique
« Reply #29 on: May 14, 2022, 01:56:37 AM »
The different standing shooting positions, I covered on page 1 of this thread
Daryl

"a gun without hammers is like a spaniel without ears" King George V

Offline Osprey

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1241
  • Roaming Delmarva...
Re: Offhand Shooting Technique
« Reply #30 on: May 15, 2022, 03:00:20 AM »
Your NMLRA rule describes exactly what I have...no support other than two hands and a shoulder.  Different events will have different rules.  The NMLRA rule is a valiant attempt to level the field for everyone.
Some shooters are more corpulent than others and will take advantage of a food blister than protrudes enough to create a wonderful rest for the left elbow.  This rule is made to disallow that.

As a lifelong nitpicker I don't read it like that.  Says two hands and a shoulder supporting the rifle, not where you place your elbows or arms other than one palm under the rifle.  Only that you don't use any ground or foreign support.  If you were double jointed and flexible enough you could shoot a whole lot of ways and still be under 'letter of the law'.  Local shoots of course can make whatever rule they want, but that rule doesn't preclude a close body arm position. 
"Any gun built is incomplete until it takes game!"

Offline duca

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 441
Re: Offhand Shooting Technique
« Reply #31 on: May 15, 2022, 03:54:24 AM »
@!*% I can remember making some Awesome off hand shots when I was younger. That's when I had Young Eye's!! we'd spend hours in the woods, what great fun. Now it's a bit of a struggle at time to focus on the sights

Anthony 
...and on the eighth day
God created the Longrifle...

Offline alacran

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1551
Re: Offhand Shooting Technique
« Reply #32 on: May 15, 2022, 02:29:13 PM »
The idea that a rifle may only be supported by the hands seems to be a Rendezvous tradition. For some odd reason.
The Germans have been shooting with the rifle supported against their body since the time of the wheel locks.
Have been shooting rifles in competition, High power CMP matches, High power and small-bore silhouette, three position small bore. Never heard of this rule
until I started shooting at Rendezvous. There is no historical basis for it.
I found it ironic that a Mountainman Rendezvous would have any rules at all as to how a rifle would be shot while standing.
A man's rights rest in three boxes: the ballot box, the jury box, and the cartridge box.  Frederick Douglass

Offline Scota4570

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1976
Re: Offhand Shooting Technique
« Reply #33 on: May 15, 2022, 07:50:17 PM »
I sent the question to the NMLRA for clarification. 

Offline D. Taylor Sapergia

  • Member 3
  • Hero Member
  • *
  • Posts: 11968
Re: Offhand Shooting Technique
« Reply #34 on: May 15, 2022, 08:53:04 PM »
Someone in the NMLRA, likely under pressure from a shooter that was beaten by a person using a body rest, decided that they'd make the body rest against the rules.  And we've been stuck with the ruling ever since.
D. Taylor Sapergia
www.sapergia.blogspot.com

Art is not an object.  It is the excitement inspired by the object.

Offline little joe

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 680
Re: Offhand Shooting Technique
« Reply #35 on: May 15, 2022, 10:24:07 PM »
Here's how I do it. When ever the sights wobble past the bull I Jerk the trigger. Works for me.
Question, how well does this work,
















Offline flinchrocket

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1617
Re: Offhand Shooting Technique
« Reply #36 on: May 16, 2022, 03:23:43 AM »

Offline alacran

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1551
Re: Offhand Shooting Technique
« Reply #37 on: May 16, 2022, 02:08:25 PM »
I just read the rule, 5610 offhand position. It says what Taylor says above, with the addition that the rifle must lay in the palm of the forward hand. It says nothing about how far back or forward on the rifle that forward hand has to be.
A man's rights rest in three boxes: the ballot box, the jury box, and the cartridge box.  Frederick Douglass

Offline Austin

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 165
  • Austin Paul
Re: Offhand Shooting Technique
« Reply #38 on: May 16, 2022, 05:52:06 PM »
Im new to target shooting, but im not having allot of luck with Mr Brooks method. What size target should I be using? How close should I be standing? I have noticed that I’ve eliminated the need for weedeating below the target base.  Any follow up would be appreciated. Thanks in advance.
Eat Beef

Offline Daryl

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 12326
Re: Offhand Shooting Technique
« Reply #39 on: May 16, 2022, 11:43:10 PM »
When I shot 3-position, it was called "Prone,  Kneeling and Standing, not Offhand. Offhand  to me  "should" mean shooting "off the hands".
In competition shooting, everyone uses body resting of some sort, absolutely, but to me, that is Standing shooting  not offhand.
Daryl

"a gun without hammers is like a spaniel without ears" King George V

Offline MJBush

  • Starting Member
  • *
  • Posts: 36
Re: Offhand Shooting Technique
« Reply #40 on: May 17, 2022, 01:59:05 AM »
So, my question is, standing shooting you can lean against a shooting bench, post or any other artificial support and that is standing shooting? Offhand is standing just using your hands?
Now, for some news about me. I am a member of the NMLRA currently I am the Territorial Coordinator, Field Rep Coordinator Region 7, National Range Officer, National Range Officer Instructor. Therefore I might know just a little about the NMLRA rule book.
I have shot at Western Nationals in Phoenix and Friendship any many Territorial’s in Oregon, Idaho, and California.
I have served on protest committees and Range Officer at the local, state and National level.
Kinda, what I am saying is I have never had a complaint when someone ‘ rested ‘ their elbow on the side (belly).
However,I have disqualified people for leaning against an artificial support. On guy wore a wide belt and stuck a ramrod into the belt to help stabilize his offhand stance.
Michael

Offline smylee grouch

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 6484
Re: Offhand Shooting Technique
« Reply #41 on: May 17, 2022, 04:41:28 AM »
Michael, what about shooting from a wheel chair or walker, would that be considered OK for off hand?

Offline MJBush

  • Starting Member
  • *
  • Posts: 36
Re: Offhand Shooting Technique
« Reply #42 on: May 17, 2022, 05:55:08 AM »
Hi,
I know there are allowances made for shooters who have special needs. There was a man in Idaho with one leg who used a stool for offhand, BTW he shot x stick’s sitting on the ground and got up with out help every time.
At Friendship, I think there is a committee. If someone is a shooting at a event I am running I will make sure to help any way I can.
Michael

Offline alacran

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1551
Re: Offhand Shooting Technique
« Reply #43 on: May 17, 2022, 02:35:05 PM »
I believe the offhand rule 5610, was intended to disallow palm rests. Palm rests are allowed in shuetzen matches. A palm rest does allow you to rest your elbow on your torso. Interestingly the rule says nothing about a hand stop on the forearm.
A man's rights rest in three boxes: the ballot box, the jury box, and the cartridge box.  Frederick Douglass

Offline smylee grouch

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 6484
Re: Offhand Shooting Technique
« Reply #44 on: May 17, 2022, 04:15:18 PM »
Thanks Michael. I know the fellow you spoke of as he shot at the Western Nationals along with one or two others.  :) Flintlocks Forever

Offline Daryl

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 12326
Re: Offhand Shooting Technique
« Reply #45 on: May 17, 2022, 07:29:26 PM »
There is one aspect of rules that will remain forever. Someone will always attempt to twist/change or circumvent the letter of the rule to his or her advantage, whether real or imagined..
Daryl

"a gun without hammers is like a spaniel without ears" King George V

Offline Squints

  • Starting Member
  • *
  • Posts: 3
Re: Offhand Shooting Technique
« Reply #46 on: May 17, 2022, 09:43:34 PM »
Been trying for years to learn how to shoot the blasted things offhand, but still can't shoot a one hole group at 50 yards.


Offline snapper

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2093
Re: Offhand Shooting Technique
« Reply #47 on: May 17, 2022, 10:05:04 PM »
Get yourself Lanny Basshams book "With wining in mind".

Everyone makes a good point and it is just like everything else.  We each have our own ways.

Holding on target is easy for a second or two, it is after that when you have more movement.  Also depends on the weight of the rifle and your sights.   For me a heavier rifle is easier to hold on target, less movement.

At times taking the shot is simply when you get the sight picture and shoot.   Other times you are taking the shot as the sight passes over the target.   I think this depends a great deal on the shooter, their ability and personality.

Breaking the shot should be subconsciously happening.  Forcing the shot works sometime and sometimes not.

I picked up my "snapper" handle based on a couple of things.   One is I tend to shoulder the rifle and shoot quickly.  I get the sight picture I want and simply shoot.  I suppose that is a learned response from shooting at thousands of sparrows and mice  growing up on the farm.

Fleener
My taste are simple:  I am easily satisfied with the best.  Winston Churchill

Offline Daryl

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 12326
Re: Offhand Shooting Technique
« Reply #48 on: May 18, 2022, 12:20:03 AM »
Fleener, "snap" shooting (shooting quickly) is also easier with set triggers.
Daryl

"a gun without hammers is like a spaniel without ears" King George V

Offline little joe

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 680
Re: Offhand Shooting Technique
« Reply #49 on: May 18, 2022, 12:51:16 AM »
Been trying for years to learn how to shoot the blasted things offhand, but still can't shoot a one hole group at 50 yards.


Thats showing off  . ;) ;) ;)