Author Topic: .58 double rifle questions  (Read 1317 times)

Offline Chocktaw Brave

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.58 double rifle questions
« on: May 10, 2022, 06:05:11 AM »
Correct me if Iím outside of the forum please. I just picked up this Pedersoli Kodiak double. Muzzle-loading percussion rifle. It is in superb shape, and very well made.
My question is, are shotgun barrels available for these? Iíve seen the newer version of this rifle advertised with both.
I havenít shot it yet because I have no number 11 caps. Will have to find some or convert it to use other ignition type.
Thank you.




Offline Shovelbuck

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Re: .58 double rifle questions
« Reply #1 on: May 10, 2022, 03:23:59 PM »
I checked into this probably 25 years ago and at that time their shotgun barrels would interchange with the rifles. The barrels were available from Pedersoli but were very expensive. Because of that, I didn't get a set. I don't know if they are still available.
I don't hunt the hard way, I hunt a simpler way.

Offline Chocktaw Brave

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Re: .58 double rifle questions
« Reply #2 on: May 10, 2022, 04:38:41 PM »
I did write an email to the factory as well, but no answer yet.  I Did not see anything on the website about it.
I was also wondering, if like a revolver cylinder, the frame would have to be sent in for fitting the new barrel.

Offline Daryl

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Re: .58 double rifle questions
« Reply #3 on: May 10, 2022, 07:37:06 PM »
I had one of those, looked a bit different and then I altered it by removing the cheek piece. I guess mine was an earlier gun.
Got it to regulate with both .562" and .574" round balls, both loaded with .021" and .022" denim patches loaded with 100gr. and 110gr. 2F.
With 100gr. it put both barrels into one group at 50yards, and with 110gr. it shot parallel (true & perfect regulation).
With 85gr. 2F it crossed by 2 1/2" with the barrels shooting to different heights & with 120gr., it crossed again by 2 1/2" with the barrels shooting
different heights, opposite to the 85gr. charge.
It was fun making rights, then lefts on the gongs in rapid succession. boom-clang -- boom-clang.
A fun gun. I was just lucky with the regulation, though. I have "heard" not one other person getting them to regulate, which is likely why they have
2 sets of sights, each one to be zeroed for one barrel. Really weird.
Daryl

"a gun without hammers is like a spaniel without ears" King George V

Offline Daryl

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Re: .58 double rifle questions
« Reply #4 on: May 10, 2022, 09:01:24 PM »
Oh yeah - I removed a 1 pound bar of lead from under the butt plate, put there by the manufacturer.
After that and the stock modifications, it handled beautifully and was quite accurate. I shot it well.
I removed one of the sights on mine as it wasn't needed and filed out the rear sight blade to a shallow V
which I prefer.
Daryl

"a gun without hammers is like a spaniel without ears" King George V

Offline Chocktaw Brave

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Re: .58 double rifle questions
« Reply #5 on: May 11, 2022, 12:54:01 AM »
Interesting, I have not looked under the but plate yet. I used to put lead shot in the cleaning compartment of my M1 Garand to help out.
Iím anxious to see if I can get this one to shoot both barrels similarly.  Any truth to the rumor of One barrel firing will cause the other bullet to move off the powder? Iíve seen it described both ways on the Internet. Some say it wonít move, others have said it does.

Offline Daryl

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Re: .58 double rifle questions
« Reply #6 on: May 11, 2022, 10:24:21 PM »
Yes - there is a definite possibility of the "other" barrels 'projectile' to move off the powder- especially if it is a bullet rather than a patched ball.
I used patched balls only in mine and likely why I got it to regulate. I have heard of these guns diverging (shooting apart) by over a foot at
50yards, if shooting slugs in them. Converging is shooting towards each other, then crossing, diverging is shooting apart. The more recoil, the
& lower velocity, more they usually diverge.
Here is a group at 50yards, rest with my rife with the load that shot both barrels together.
Only one sight was used & held identically for each shot.
IIRC, there 8 shots in that group, including the 'slight' flinch or bad hold, one or the other.
The main 7shot group is about 1 1/2" or a little less.



« Last Edit: May 11, 2022, 10:33:44 PM by Daryl »
Daryl

"a gun without hammers is like a spaniel without ears" King George V

Offline Chocktaw Brave

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Re: .58 double rifle questions
« Reply #7 on: May 11, 2022, 10:33:56 PM »
Nice group! I watched a video of a guy from cap and ball shooting one of these double rifles. He was using conical bullets, but they were so tight he was pounding them into the barrel with a wooden mallet. I wonder if that keeps them from moving under recoil? Unless the barrels are choked on the end which means they would actually get bigger down towards the breech end.

Offline Daryl

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Re: .58 double rifle questions
« Reply #8 on: May 12, 2022, 02:55:29 AM »
Mine wasn't choked. I don't have to use a mallet with any of my rifles, with snug fitting balls and patches.
The rifle's (in this case) 3/8" hickory rod to push it down and a short starter to get them started into the muzzle.
If you want to P<M me your e-mail, I'll mail you a video of my loading my Kodiak & will see how easy it is. I the
video I am using a .562" ball and .0215" ticking patch.
Daryl

"a gun without hammers is like a spaniel without ears" King George V

Offline Hungry Horse

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Re: .58 double rifle questions
« Reply #9 on: May 15, 2022, 08:30:03 PM »
 Be aware in some states these gun arenít legal to hunt with. In California any muzzleloading rifle capable of clambering more than one round is not legal to hunt with unless you hunt the standard rifle season instead of the blackpowder season.

Hungry Horse

Offline Chocktaw Brave

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Re: .58 double rifle questions
« Reply #10 on: May 15, 2022, 09:22:09 PM »
Iíll have to check into that, reg says barrel must fire a single projectile, and each barrel would do this. Iím scheduled to take the state muzzleloader shooting class this fall( already passed the online classes)So I will ask.

Offline Bob Roller

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Re: .58 double rifle questions
« Reply #11 on: May 26, 2022, 04:02:42 AM »
Be aware in some states these gun arenít legal to hunt with. In California any muzzleloading rifle capable of clambering more than one round is not legal to hunt with unless you hunt the standard rifle season instead of the blackpowder season.

Hungry Horse
West Virginia is the same. No double barrel muzzle loaders.There is a way around this stupid law and that is to obtain a muzzle loader like the one in our art museum,I think it is called an Ellis.
It has 4 bolsters and uses caps and the loads are superposed on top of each other'The lock slides along the barrel beginning with the FRONT bolster and then slide it back as needed until the 4th shot is fired.
If the loading wasn't really tight I would think the first shot from the top load would make a 4 shot Roman candle and no way to shut it off and 3 nipples as an exhaust system and 3 caps blown off.
Ellis or whoever must have been an ancestor of Rube Goldberg.
Bob Roller




Bob Roller
« Last Edit: May 26, 2022, 10:44:50 PM by Bob Roller »

Offline Chocktaw Brave

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Re: .58 double rifle questions
« Reply #12 on: May 27, 2022, 12:35:44 AM »
Iíve never heard of that Ellis rifle before, so I did a search and found a flintlock version. Very interesting design, but with the ever present danger of firing off all for the same time. This was a pretty nice example and it sold for $17,750.
Thereís also the danger I guess in battle, if one was to load more than one round but either forget to slide lock forward, or by necessity have to fire it immediately thus firing a stacked load.

Offline Daryl

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Re: .58 double rifle questions
« Reply #13 on: May 29, 2022, 01:56:11 AM »
Multi-shot guns were made in match locks as well. I presume one might want to "pay attention" to what one was doing.
Longevity in society does not seem to favour fools, highly.
Daryl

"a gun without hammers is like a spaniel without ears" King George V

Offline Chocktaw Brave

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Re: .58 double rifle questions
« Reply #14 on: June 01, 2022, 08:59:59 AM »
Well I got the primer conversion kit for it, as #11 caps are scarce as hens teeth around here. I put one side on, but do not like it. The alignment is all off, this kit is a Pedersoli, same maker as the rifle, but the angle looks as if it will damage the hammers.
And possibly misfire.





Offline Daryl

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Re: .58 double rifle questions
« Reply #15 on: June 01, 2022, 06:35:02 PM »
Do you have a choice?  Measure the 'throw' you need. Measure from the centre of the hammer screw hole, to the centre of the 'firing pin'. You might find new hammers with the throw you need, that will strike correctly, at trackofthewolf.com.
Too, a hammer blank with flat nose, not recessed for a nipple would work too.
Daryl

"a gun without hammers is like a spaniel without ears" King George V

Offline Dowrat

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Re: .58 double rifle questions
« Reply #16 on: June 02, 2022, 03:08:17 AM »
How does that primer conversion contraption fire the rifle? Do you put something inside it? Dumb question maybe...but I've never seen anything like that. Thanks for any information.  Darryl

Offline Daryl

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Re: .58 double rifle questions
« Reply #17 on: June 02, 2022, 03:13:05 AM »
Primer - the ones I have seen and made, use either a pistol or rifle primer.
The round topped post touching the hammer, is the firing pin.
With the hammer at a high 1/2 or full cock, unscrew the ribbed top piece. The firing pin comes up with it.
Place a new primer in the device and screw the top back on. Done.
I made one of these when I lived in Smithers, B.C. and could not buy ANY percussion caps. I made it with
an adjustable drill held in my bench vice. That was my lathe. All done with files and a tap and die set.
After a year of using small pistol primers, I bought a Forester Tap-O- Cap and punched out my own #11 caps
using steel beer and pop cans. In the 70's, they were only aluminum in the States. Ours were steel. I had to sharpen
the teeth on the punch and case harden them due to the steel cans.  I still have a bunch of them, but without priming.
I made my own priming, but that is not quite legal today, as in "possession of explosives without a license".
« Last Edit: June 02, 2022, 03:20:55 AM by Daryl »
Daryl

"a gun without hammers is like a spaniel without ears" King George V

Offline Chocktaw Brave

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Re: .58 double rifle questions
« Reply #18 on: June 02, 2022, 08:04:05 AM »
How does that primer conversion contraption fire rifle? Do you put something inside it? Dumb question maybe...but I've never seen anything like that. Thanks for any information.  Darryl
The cap unscrews and a shot shell primer goes in the recess. Cap has a floating firing pin. My mag spark conversion for my musket works very well. I may have to try their version on the double rifle.
This is what it looks like. OT rifle, but trying to show the Mag Spark brand.


Offline Dowrat

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Re: .58 double rifle questions
« Reply #19 on: June 04, 2022, 01:18:48 AM »
Ahh yes. Now I see how it works. Thanks for the education guys.

Darryl

Offline Dphariss

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Re: .58 double rifle questions
« Reply #20 on: June 05, 2022, 04:27:00 AM »
Find some high strength, low temp solder at the hardware store and solder a plug in the hammer nose. Just be sure if fits the cavity closely and is pressed in tight when heated to flow the solder.
Worth a shot anyway.
Brownells sells a high strength soft solder if you donít find something in the hardware store.

Dan
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Offline Daryl

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Re: .58 double rifle questions
« Reply #21 on: June 05, 2022, 07:20:18 PM »
Force 44, Dan?
Daryl

"a gun without hammers is like a spaniel without ears" King George V

Offline Bsharp

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Re: .58 double rifle questions
« Reply #22 on: June 15, 2022, 05:15:58 PM »
Have you tried some nipples for Musket caps?

Musket caps are available.

I have used them on my double 50.
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Offline Chocktaw Brave

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Re: .58 double rifle questions
« Reply #23 on: June 15, 2022, 05:52:34 PM »
I have not tried the musket nipples/caps. But a friend managed to score me three tins of #11ís from a cowboy shooter he knows. So now I have enough to practice with and develop a load. I just have to find a place to shoot.
Local range is closed for renovation, there is a very small range(only four shooting positions)about 60 miles away. I might try to go there mid week and see if itís not too crowded.